Since wanker Mortimer was a temple president, it's pretty easy to determine that he has had the Second Anointing/Second Endowment. That means, in short, that anything he does in this life is gravy, and he need never fear being held accountable. So my guess is that he's not going to have any church discipline, much like Joseph Bishop. In fact, he may have already confessed it--like Bishop--and got the go-head, anyway.

I can't think of anything that I've heard about in the church recently that gives me more creepy feeling that this story. Ugh.

Yes, that was what I surmised in the other thread: "A temple president and mission president? He's covered by the second anointing and doesn't need to explain anything to anyone."

The church does sometimes, or has sometimes, excommunicated people who have received the 2A. The rule is that if someone commits serious sin after having been so anointed, they will be subjected to the buffetings of Satan until ultimately being exalted.

I think you are right in reaching for Bishop (and Phillips and Mattson). The church doesn't want to increase their public influence through a court o' love. It's remarkable, isn't it? These men are never denounced by the church.

A long time ago I was arrested for small-quantity marijuana possession. About the same time, so did a Kennedy brat--my good fortune. They started dismissing most of those cases.

Now, suppose some average Mormon elder gets busted for trying to sneak pictures of a woman under non-consensual circumstances. I wonder if he could use Mortimer as part of his Court of Lust Defense?

is a bit complicated, especially for a "faith" tradition like Mormonism.

Onanism is the sin of wanking. Onanism is derived from the name Onan. Onan was the second son of Judah and was commanded by God to have sex with and impregnate his sister-in-law. But instead of going aaaalllll the way, Onan "spilled his seed" at the last possible opportunity.

Having sex with his sister-in-law was not the sin, for that was what he was commanded to do. Getting a sex thrill was not his sin. His sin was spilling his seed, instead of using it to fertilize an egg. God wanted Onan to act as proxy for his dead brother in impregnating his dead brother's wife. (I'm surprised that Mormons don't point to this often as evidence supporting their special proxy ordinances for dead people. "I, Onan, do hereby boink you and impregnate you for and on behalf of Er, who is dead.")

But Gerald Wankimer Mortimer, technically speaking, did not spill his seed. He collected it and used it to fertilize eggs.

So in the fine tradition of the OT, his best defense is to claim that God told him to do it...with multiple women.

Multiple women? Well...that seems to be at odds with modern morality. But after the fine tradition of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, et al, Wankimer can claim that God commanded him to do that too.

But none of the women knew what Wankimer was up to and are therefore victims of his deception and fraud, you say?

Well, after the fine tradition of Mormonism...when has some technicality like that ever been an issue?

I guess they could excommunicate him. Maybe they will and maybe they won't.

But they actually have no principles to stand on either way. Maybe they need to quietly get him out of their glass house before they start throwing stones at him. Or maybe they can throw some paper mache "stones" at him inside the glass house, in full view of the public, winking at him while he pretends to be suffering major blows. "Ouch! Ouch! I'm sorry! Stop throwing those hard, heavy stones at me! Ouch! Ouch!"

Wally Prince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> is a bit complicated, especially for a "faith"
> tradition like Mormonism.
>
> Onanism is the sin of wanking. Onanism is derived
> from the name Onan. Onan was the second son of
> Judah and was commanded by God to have sex with
> and impregnate his sister-in-law. But instead of
> going aaaalllll the way, Onan "spilled his seed"
> at the last possible opportunity.
>
> Having sex with his sister-in-law was not the sin,
> for that was what he was commanded to do. Getting
> a sex thrill was not his sin. His sin was
> spilling his seed, instead of using it to
> fertilize an egg. God wanted Onan to act as proxy
> for his dead brother in impregnating his dead
> brother's wife. (I'm surprised that Mormons don't
> point to this often as evidence supporting their
> special proxy ordinances for dead people. "I,
> Onan, do hereby boink you and impregnate you for
> and on behalf of Er, who is dead.")

One of the best treatments of Genesis 38 I've come across in a long time. Onan's situation was definitely DiEr.
>
> Or maybe they can throw
> some paper mache "stones" at him inside the glass
> house, in full view of the public, winking at him
> while he pretends to be suffering major blows.
> "Ouch! Ouch! I'm sorry! Stop throwing those
> hard, heavy stones at me! Ouch! Ouch!"

Speaking of the OT, I saw a production of Saint-Saens' Samson & Delilah. When it was "curtains" for Samson and the Philistines, the temple ceiling came crashing down--very obviously painted blocks of Styrofoam!

I hesitate to admit it, but I thought of Onan as well--and even considered the possibility that a crazy man like Mortimer might rationalize what he did in those terms. Viewed the way you explain it, what he did was "legalized" masturbation. He did not "spill his seed."

Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first in Mormonism we believe.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hesitate to admit it, but I thought of Onan as
>
>
> Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first in
> Mormonism we believe.


That deserves to be written in needlepoint and framed. A perfect Christmas gift for all of our TBM friends and relatives this coming holiday season. ;o)

"High praise, coming from Wallace, the Prince of Puns."

--Judy Quest, Stalker of Judic West, Earl of Albemarle



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2019 03:03PM by Lot's Wife.

"Wasting seed can wreak havoc in the garden."

--Julie Jest, Prier of Minutiae, visiting Onan's grounds while stalking Judy Quest

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first in
> Mormonism we believe.

God will not be cock blocked.

Dorothy Parker named her parakeet Onan because he spilled his seed on the ground.

Lubrication?!?

Only pussies need lubricant!

Wait just a cotton pickin minute. I don't think it is at all a foregone conclusion that this guy had the second anointing. I have seen nothing that indicates that either temple presidents or mission presidents are routinely offered the second anointing.

A temple president has to be up to speed and vetted for all that goes on in the temple, hence the strong suspicion that he has the SA. And quite a few mission presidents also get the SA. I'm not sure if it's because of them being mission presidents--or as is normally the rule--because he is a businessman. Mormons treat the SA like they would a country club sponsorship. One is put forward to receive the SA by another who has the SA. They don't just grab someone out of the air. They choose family, friends, and business associates.

Not to make light of their positions in the church at the times, but given the fact that Tom Philips and Hans Matteson, and their wives, were granted that blessing, the standard can't be all that high.

So there's every reason to suppose that a guy who was BOTH a temple president and a mission president, would be a shoe-in, which leads to the possibility that either calling gets you that ordinance.

I wonder if anyone has had to the guts to request it as part of the compensation package? Or to hold out accepting a calling until it was made part of the offer of compensation?

but he did himself that time when he was aiming for the cup but dribbled...er... I mean anointed himself all the way down his right thigh instead.

A distant bell is ringing in my head.

Something about a seldom evoked doctrine called "The Law of the Eunuch."

Something about if a man CANNOT sire children, then another man may sire them for him, and the children will go to build up the kingdom of the childless man.

Something like the Levitical marriage, only you don't have to wait until the sterile man dies.

The Law of the Eunuch was practiced in the LeBaron colony and who knows where else.

Maybe something like that was going through the good doctor's mind.

I mean the LEVIRATE marriage.

Lois, because LDS really doesn't have a unified doctrinal system, different people can draw on different (and distant) traditions. Another distant bell is the "seed bearer" belief, practiced, I believe, by the the Warren Jeffs group. I wonder if that concept might have factored into Mortimer's thinking--that, with a (possible) secret anointing, he "bore sacred seed."

Infertile couple: "Doctor, we'd like a carefully screened sperm donor for our family."
Mortimer: "I have the perfect donor in mind."

Of course, he could be nothing more than a twisted, egotistical jerk, rationalizing this by his exalted priesthood self-righteousness.

Question: Are we presuming that having been a TP and MP he probably had the 2nd Anointing?

Lastly-- Not using a regulated donor base would also keep his costs down.

I'm sure he thought he was special, even if he didn't have the SA.

I know the different fundamentalists have different ideas about sex and marriage, but I seem to remember once case in BY's Utah where the Law of the Eunuch was practiced on BY's direct orders.

The man in question was literally a eunuch, having had himself castrated when he had belonged to a sect even crazier than BY's.

Well, now the poor eunuch became a Mormon, and it was his job to build up his kingdom by having lots of kids, and how was he going to do that?

Not to worry. BY to the rescue. The Eunuch's wife would go be the plural wife of someone else for a couple of years until she had a couple of kids, whereupon she would rejoin her eunuch husband and take her kids with her, who would be accredited to HIM. Problem solved.

This all happened in Springville, Utah. That is all I can remember about the story.

I don't see any coherent biblical teaching regarding eunuchs...

Here's a pretty inclusive source: https://biblehub.com/topical/e/eunuch.htm


Deuteronomy 23:1
He that is a eunuch, whether he have been crushed or cut, shall not come into the congregation of Jehovah. (Darby Bible)


Deuteronomy 23:1
He that is awounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord. (LDS KJV)

"3 Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say,
“The LORD will surely separate me from his people”;
and let not the eunuch say,
“Behold, I am a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the LORD:
“To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,
who choose the things that please me
and hold fast my covenant,
5 I will give in my house and within my walls
a monument and a name
better than sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
that shall not be cut off."

Later (v.7c):
"for My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations.”

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't see any coherent biblical teaching
> regarding eunuchs...
>
> Here's a pretty inclusive source:
> https://biblehub.com/topical/e/eunuch.htm

> Deuteronomy 23:1
> He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his
> privy member cut off, shall not enter into the
> congregation of the Lord. (LDS KJV)

BUT:

they are worthy to enter heaven (Matt 19:12) and
they will have a special place there (Isaiah 56:3-5).

I'm just curious why EOD is so familiar with verses about eunuchs.

In one of the eunuch scriptures, there was notice that two types of eunuchs were recognized:

1) guys who'd lost their nut-sack, but not their penis;

2) guys who'd lost their penis, but not the nut-sack.


Obviously, if you'd lost both, you were seen as an over-achiever!

And I didn't notice any mention of living a good life so that one's equipment would be returned in the hereafter.

One of my bosses. He always told everyone he was a eunuch and anyone from Cache Valley might have known him. I think he thought it would keep management from thinking he was sexually harassing the women, which he was. He eventually got fired for sexual harassment.

Phantom limb syndrome. Not to be confused with phantom orgasm syndrome which he might also have had in conjunction to what he only could see with his spiritual eyes.