I see now that online tithing is possible so all I need to do is come up with a variation of Christianity, start up a blog and wait for the $$ to come rolling in. I look forward to never having to work again.

I'm wondering about the tax situation though. Obviously I want to be tax-exempt. Do I have to demonstrate to the IRS that all of my income ("donations") are being used for spiritual matters?

It'll just cost you your soul.

So I guess the real question is: how much is a soul really worth anyway? Probably not much, since it doesnt do anything.

"since it doesnt do anything." I believe it has no value.
Does it rise off the thinking brain,the mind to the ether, after the entire body system shuts down? This I find to unbelievable.

Get an online ordained minister credential, post a blog, and you are off and running.

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Get an online ordained minister credential, post a
> blog, and you are off and running.

I can probably design up a PhD in Photoshop and call myself a Doctor of Theology too..... this is looking good...

Sadly, if you could bring yourself to do it, you could find plenty of suckers.

Have you ever seen the documentary Kumare? It's a fascinating story about a man that impersonates a guru and how easy it is for him to build a loyal following.

crunchynevmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sadly, if you could bring yourself to do it, you
> could find plenty of suckers.
>
> Have you ever seen the documentary Kumare? It's a
> fascinating story about a man that impersonates a
> guru and how easy it is for him to build a loyal
> following.

I should see that, thanks. I've often toyed with the idea of starting a religion just for the money, but ulimnately I couldn't conscience it.

I firmly believe that most religious leaders are really atheists, just in it for the money and power -- and sex, in the case of the Mormons, Catholics and Muslims.

I agree. It's all about power, control, and getting all the goodies.

> Have you ever seen the documentary Kumare?

OP, watch this on Netflix - he had followers so devoted to him that he almost couldn't come clean with them that the whole thing was just an experiment - in other words, it was too easy

if only i was a sociopath...

That is such a great movie. The guy gets a following by telling everyone that they don't need a spiritual leader and that they should think for themselves.

It's the same message as in the Life of Brian. Life imitates art.

Get really stubborn and take a lot of flack. Those things are universal. You can't opt out of the blowback.

You might try writing up some doctrine on Jibber Crabst, some teachings and rites??? Also a podcast or Vblog on youtube seems to be all the rage also.

Here's more on the Savior Jibbers Crabst.
https://youtu.be/ZZ_BtZ-5O60

to be tax exempt you'll need at least 50 followers and it has to be open to the public, including all races. You can't be a weirdo Jim-Bob-Duggar and be the father/pastor of your own little kingdom of spawns. The irs won't buy it. lol

Lie!

Then lie to the IRS.

And if anybody calls you out on being a liar, your faith is being persecuted and therefore will give it more creditability.

You don't have to lie to the IRS. What is generally not known is that churches are not required to file income tax statements - EVER! Unlike non-profits, churches are exempt - PERIOD! Almost nothing given BY the church has to be reported as personal income including home, car, trips, clothing, family medical care, mission expenses, tuition, etc. That's why all the leaders of the mega-churches, including Mormonism, have such opulent life styles.

Many years ago, I learned how incredibly liberal the tax laws are governing churches (essentially non-existent). I became a minister and started my own church. I saved a bundle in taxes and never filed a false personal return. I, of course, was not required to file one for my church. The same laws that let TSCC get away with so much also applied to my little church. I was always completely honest in all my dealings with the IRS as I did not want to go to prison for tax evasion. I was never audited, but had I been, all I did was in strict compliance with existing tax law.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2015 03:18PM by Templar.

Templar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't have to lie to the IRS. What is
> generally not known is that churches are not
> required to file income tax statements - EVER!
> Unlike non-profits, churches are exempt - PERIOD!
> Almost nothing given BY the church has to be
> reported as personal income including home, car,
> trips, clothing, family medical care, mission
> expenses, tuition, etc. That's why all the leaders
> of the mega-churches, including Mormonism, have
> such opulent life styles.
>
> Many years ago, I learned how incredibly liberal
> the tax laws are governing churches (essentially
> non-existent). I became a minister and started my
> own church. I saved a bundle in taxes and never
> filed a false personal return. I, of course, was
> not required to file one for my church. The same
> laws that let TSCC get away with so much also
> applied to my little church. I was always
> completely honest in all my dealings with the IRS
> as I did not want to go to prison for tax evasion.
> I was never audited, but had I been, all I did was
> in strict compliance with existing tax law.

Wow! Were you actually religious at the time, that is did you genuinely believe in what you were doing? If not that's OK, I certainly won't judge!

Check this out:
http://oursaviorschurch.com/giving/online-giving-options/

Note on the right where it says: "Giving -- My heart always goes where I put God's money."

And it's NOT supposed to be a joke...!

I believed in saving taxes. What I did had nothing to do with god per se. The difference between me and Mormon leaders is that I didn't pretend that it was anything other than a way to save on taxes and I saved thousands. I obtained a charter from a California incorporated church which assisted me in fully complying with all existing tax laws.

When I found out what churches get away with in the name of god, I was really blown away. I posted this on this board some months ago and was called everything from a tax cheat to a hypocrite. I was neither. For some reason, some consider the Mormon church a "real" church and so what they do is alright. But when someone else sets up their own legal church and follows the same laws its not alright. Go figure.

Actually, the way it works is quite simple. You can donate up to 50% of your income (as I recall) on your personal return. The amount donated reduces your taxable income dollar for dollar. Your bracket determines your savings (i.e. 25% bracket returns a quarter for every dollar donated). Its no different from the thousands TBMs donate in tithing and deduct on their taxes every year and every bit as legal.

Your church then covers non-taxable ministerial expenses such as home (meeting house), car, medical care, etc. The list is extensive. You must make sure the church only covers allowable items or you could be guilty of under reporting income which is how they finally nailed Al Capone. The church itself, as I have stated, is not required to file any documents or tax forms with the IRS. This is clearly stated in tax law.

Nothing I was doing is any different than the tens of thousands of Mormon families who give $400 a month to TSCC for a tax write off to cover the cost of their child's mission. The church actually warns parents in writing not to send the money directly since it would no longer be deductable. Note the need of the funds to "flow thru" a church and the church does not consider the funds as tithing contributions. It's clearly used to cover ministerial expenses.

Anyone, with careful planning, can save a good deal on their taxes. Consider Mittens who was willing to lose the Presidency rather than release just how much he actually saved!

Templar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believed in saving taxes. What I did had nothing
> to do with god per se. The difference between me
> and Mormon leaders is that I didn't pretend that
> it was anything other than a way to save on taxes
> and I saved thousands. I obtained a charter from a
> California incorporated church which assisted me
> in fully complying with all existing tax laws.
>
> When I found out what churches get away with in
> the name of god, I was really blown away. I posted
> this on this board some months ago and was called
> everything from a tax cheat to a hypocrite. I was
> neither. For some reason, some consider the Mormon
> church a "real" church and so what they do is
> alright. But when someone else sets up their own
> legal church and follows the same laws its not
> alright. Go figure.

Interesting indeed. How do you set up your own "legal" church? You mentioned obtaining a charter from an existing church, but I'd be more interested in starting a completely new, independent "church" -- roughly based on Christianity, with its lucrative concepts of punishment, penance and reward.

I really couldn't answer that since I did not "start from scratch." You need to get in touch with an attorney who will know all the papers that have to be filed. I do know you have to incorporate as a church with the state authorities (usually the Secretary of State) where the church will be headquartered. I'm not sure, but I think you do need to obtain tax exemption status from IRS and also need their approval so donations can be deducted. The church from whom I obtained my charter already had all the necessary approvals and my "church" functioned as a branch of the "mother" church so I just rode their coattails.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do. Be careful of who you choose to do the legal work. If not done right, you could find yourself in a heap of trouble.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2015 01:02PM by Templar.

How about living in poverty and deconstructing Mormonism? I like the idea of giving all my money to start an organization that owns a reall nice building with classrooms + Life skills + social skills + food and charity for all.


It is way better than a religion!

If you're sufficiently charismatic you can probably pull it off, but that said if you have those sales skills you might also succeed in any one of a number of MLM "magic potion" businesses.

jerry64 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you're sufficiently charismatic you can
> probably pull it off, but that said if you have
> those sales skills you might also succeed in any
> one of a number of MLM "magic potion" businesses.

I would prefer to do it anonymously from behind the scenes -- over the internet, such as these people are doing: http://oursaviorschurch.com/giving/online-giving-options/

Actually, for IRS exemption purposes, you must have a legally issued charter for your congregation from an state incorporated church or go to the expense and trouble of formal incorporation by knowledgeable attorneys which don't come cheap.

In Joseph's day anyone who wanted could start a church. But, of course, back then anyone who wanted to practice law only needed to put out a shingle with "lawyer" written on it. Those days have long since passed.

Be a has-been washed up TV-actor! You can start a cult, & get s lot of young girls who think you're cute!

http://www.vulture.com/2015/03/andrew-keegan-encounter.html

Having worked for the IRS for twelve years in a past life, I can vouch that yes, you will have to pay taxes for your "gain," as a preacher running your quirky church.

Whatever your income is, gets reported as such to the gov. You will be taxed accordingly.

I dealt with some pretty slippery fish aka preachers as a tax collector. I doubt very much they tithed themselves. Some of them would withhold from the government because they liked to live high and lavishly according to the contributions they were given.

Then were some who just struggled because they lived too simply, and had a difficult time paying their taxes. We'd work with either case to resolve their tax problems.

I had one shyster who was a priest, who stole from his flock, and went and gambled it all away on racetracks and casinos and such. He was one of the shadiest I worked with, but probably had a genuine gambling addiction. He was also an imposter for a priest. Not totally unlike ole Joe Smith was, deviations and all.

They're hard to pin down though. Some hire accountants and lawyers to help them off the hook. Others can't afford to, and take the lumps as they're dealt. Some get placed into Currently non-collectible accounts, as not having sufficient income to pay their taxes, for whatever reason/s.

Sounds like I may have lucked out - I was never audited. Of course, the "mother" church had sharp lawyers and accountants who told me exactly how to do everything and would have assisted me in an IRS challenge. They claimed to have a good deal of "case law" to back up what they were doing.

This happened several decades ago, and as I understand, the IRS got wise and tightened the rules which now requires a bonafided congregation with regular meetings. I was well out of it before the changes took place.

As an aside, my charter is still legally valid and I remain an ordained minister so if I ever have a "sacred grove" experience I'm good to go.

Oh, and by the way, I personally feel all churches should pay their fair share of taxes. "The little church in the wildwood" is long gone. Most are just big businesses now and should be treated like any other corporation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2015 01:23PM by Templar.

amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Having worked for the IRS for twelve years in a
> past life, I can vouch that yes, you will have to
> pay taxes for your "gain," as a preacher running
> your quirky church.

Wouldn't it be easy enough to claim that expenses were incurred in the course of doing "the Lord's work"? YOu could ay that any trips or holidays were made in order to spread your gospel.

Like that pastor who is trying to get his congregation to buy him a new private jet.

Screw starting a church.
I wanna know how to get on that IRS "non-collectable account" list!

I attended a Messianic synagogue where I live for several years before leaving, after determining it was run more like a cult than a church. The "rabbi" aka pastor and his wife at the top, like a pyramid structure, got their housing, car, all expenses paid, including trips to Israel and Beverly Hills, and their place of worship from the funds of the tithers.

His "cantor" and best friend was his point man, and CPA, accountant. They're a very shrewd team. They have an "elder" who works alongside them, each man is married and their wives run the church house like they own everyone. And the rabbi is somewhat charismatic enough that they attract evangelicals.

They inflate the numbers of Jews who worship there. I didn't really meet any, except one who died not too long ago. But the money, OMG. It flowed in from the Messianics who attend there.

The cantor, CPA, manages all the funds, and is a very astute businessman. I honestly don't know how sincere these men are, because they rule with a tight fist, similar to Joseph Smith. There could be no dissension within the group. It was like Mormonism all over again. Once I became more aware of the similarities, I walked.

The money there flows upward. They recently moved from their tiny little synagogue to a nicer and larger place of worship in a more central Jewish location. They are, after all, trying to convert Jews to Messianic Judaism. But the Jews will have nada thing to do with them. They consider Messianics to be traitors of their faith. The worst kind of people. Like the Sons of Perdition in Mormonism, are Messianic Jews to Judaism.

They've made a nice living running their little racket. I've heard the cantor remark how he's constantly dealing with the IRS, and generally complaining about how their proceeds are taxed.

And the rabbi? He was a baker before making a mid-life career change.

amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jews to Messianic Judaism. But the Jews will have
> nada thing to do with them. They consider
> Messianics to be traitors of their faith. The
> worst kind of people. Like the Sons of Perdition
> in Mormonism, are Messianic Jews to Judaism.

The first time I became aware of Jews for Jesus was when I was walking around Beverly Hills a couple of years ago, and came across one of their churches/synagogues.

Isn't a Jew who believes in Jesus just a Christian?

saving $ on your 'home church' property taxes might be a challenge as most local govt's have experienced people trying this one... It usually FAILS.