When you are outside looking in, you get a better picture of what is happening. It's been a month since my wife and I attended SM. But wife can't drive so I drove her to SM only.
Here are my observations.
1) Two full empty rows at front of chapel.
2) 2 full rows of visitors for baby blessing.
3) Lots of empty seats arond the chapel.
Go back one year. Could not find a seat if you are late.
4) Lots of space between testimony bearing and same old people. But too much space between people bearing testimony.
Go back one year. If you didn't get up you would not have time to get up and bear your testimony.
5) It may be me, but there was no spirit there in the meeting. Nada. But it may be me. But people looked distant and disinterested when I looked around as I sit in back due to needing to stretch legs.
6) Nothing inspiring from Bishopric. It's like they are going through motions. Bishop looked burned out. They do not associated with members as busy doing other stuff I guess.
7) Theme for most testimonies was work for the dead. Work for dead in temple and submitting family names. You could say, testimonies for the dead and by the dead!! Very sad as all they can relate to is the dead, not the living.
8) There is another ward that meets two hours before us. When I arrived at parking lot, lots of places to park.
Go back a year ago. Arrive 15 minutes early, difficulty finding a place to park.
Yes the air is slowly leaking out of the tire.
No wonder the sister missionaries felt Satan was making them discouraged.
My observation: It's not Satan but the soul is dying.Anyone that understands group dynamics can understand what is happening.Going to a funeral viewing had more life than yesterday.

The Gig is up!

The slow fade seems to be the best way to disengage.

It's really too bad that the LDS Church won't admit to how many people are leaving / resigning. I'd love to know the count!

ahh..yes, the wane and flow of a congregation of believers-- something is clearly amiss!
We know much about the people leaving, what do we know about the people staying?
No scientifically validated data --- however, it's my opinion, that there is a huge decline in the 20% of members that did 100% of the church work including paying tithing, going to the temple etc.
Who are the members that are left?
Clearly not enough leadership as evidence; wards combined and stakes combined in my area. I have read this is not uncommon, happening other places also.

If people keep on leaving the church is going to run into a big problem. They already have the problem in some areas. What problem is that? Not enough men to run a ward. Not enough worthy PH holders.

My last ward had a big problem with this. The bishop stayed in that calling for 8 years because there were no replacements. Shen they finally replaced him, it was with a guy in his late 70's. He would fall asleep up on the stand. I felt kinda sorry for the guy.

I have a friend that lives on the east bench in SLC. They had this same problem. One of the wards didn't have a single candidate that the SP would consider to be the next bishop. The bishop of the ward was left in for ~8 years. They just recently reorganized the stake, dissolving 3 wards, to deal with this problem.

Those that live in young areas on the west side of the valley don't see this, but I know several people that live in aging areas in east SLC, Murray, Cottonwood Heights, etc... that all say their wards are struggling.

I moved recently enough far from SLC. I was told that the last "priesthood holder" that moved into the ward was literally "prayed into existence". The ward was dying for priesthood holders to do stuff. Like they had low single digits.

So they turned to God and prayed for a priesthood holder. And then he moved in! See, the church is true - God answers prayers!

Since he moved in (3 years ago), there have been precisely 0 priesthood holders enter. And several are looking to move away.

Good luck, church!

Give the old bishop a break. He probably wasn't falling asleep because he was an older guy. he probably was falling asleep for exactly the same reasons that all the members in the congregation fall asleep. A 'good' sacrament meeting, the kind with high counselor, RS president EQ president all speaking, will euthanize a buffalo.

Do you know if anyone has moved away?

That happened a lot in my old ward. Of course some people actually left the cult, but a lot of people ended up moving.

I live in the desert southwest, but I'm not in Utah.

Long before I realized that the church is fraudulent, I hung out in the library because I felt more comfortable in there. Eventually, I was called to work in the library when the prior Library Lady and her family moved north out of state. On rare occasions, such as Mother's Day, others watched the library while I "got to" (Whooo-Pee-Doo. Not!!!) attend Relief society. Then I remembered why I hung out in the library.

RS lessons are soooooooooooo boring and have been for years. Sacrament Meetings are sooooooooooo boring. There's nothing new and interesting nor is anything deep. Even Relief Society Homemaking Meetings (whatever they're called now) are uninteresting. The constant repetition of the same few topics drove me batty. If there is nothing new and interesting for people to learn, or anything worthwhile that will hold members' attention for any length of time, they just may go inactive from boredom.

And, if the Strengthing the Church Members' Committee is reading this, SHAME ON YOU for allowing the travesty that is the LDS church to waste peoples' time, finances, and their very lives!

Relief Society lessons remind me of an old high school cheer leading chant. It goes like this:

WE love our team!
we LOVE our team!
we love OUR team!
we love our TEAM!
WE LOVE OUR TEAM!

IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST AMEN!

Framable "Proclamations to our Team" are available at deseret book.

...and protected by copyright.

I have something for SCMC if they are reading this. Two middle fingers facing their direction

I've noticed and active TBM wife has confirmed that our once busting at the seams ward, which 14 years ago had to be split into two seperate wards has now dropped to numbers that would only support a "branch".

This had initially happened because of the influence of a new and popular temple being reconstructed, thus restoring the kingdom on the Mississippi. The growing numbers 14/15 years ago were shocking, it wasnt unusual to see a new family move in every week, sometimes two.
Some came for really bizarre reasons, "They were called or received inspiration to return." Others came to capitalize on a business venture, but it was all fairly short-lived.
Most of the fanatic nut-jobs moved away and the "Mormon Disneyland" never panned out.

My TBM neighbor in Az told me that his ward was getting so big that they had to move. He knows I could care less, but he needed to tell me this because my son is a "baptized never went to church" (whole other story) member of their records.

He then went on to say that 10 members had died this past year. WTH kind of logic is that? You lost 10 members but your so big that you had to move?

As a nevermo, one of the things I've struggled to understand is this concept that you MUST attend the ward/building you are assigned to, and you MUST attend at the hour they meet.

What if another location has ministries or facilities or something else that makes it more attractive. Perhaps you have friends or family that attend there, or they have more vibrant youth programs for your kids?

It's been some time since I've been regularly to organized church, but the last Methodist church I attended had two services. The early service was more of a praise service. They had a small band that played songs and the congregation clapped and sang along. The later service was more traditional. You weren't "assigned" to either service. You could attend the one you liked best... heck, you could even go to both if you wanted! The doors were always open to anyone.

Back to the point: In a normal religion, you'd be able to "vote with your feet" to find a fuller ward if you wanted, or to find one less crowded if you preferred intimate worship.

I think "normal" religion is the attempt to freely, and loosely worship ghawd. There is a loose framework and people ricochet around inside that framework as they attempt to meet their needs.

Cults, like mormonism, are fixated on controlling the behavior of the members, so the framework is very confining, because the salvation of the individual is not primary, rather it's the cult that must be saved; rules must be obeyed so that ghawd knows you love him. Otherwise he weeps... And it's YOUR fault!

Tonto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a nevermo, one of the things I've struggled to
> understand is this concept that you MUST attend
> the ward/building you are assigned to, and you
> MUST attend at the hour they meet.
>
> What if another location has ministries or
> facilities or something else that makes it more
> attractive. Perhaps you have friends or family
> that attend there, or they have more vibrant youth
> programs for your kids?
>
> It's been some time since I've been regularly to
> organized church, but the last Methodist church I
> attended had two services. The early service was
> more of a praise service. They had a small band
> that played songs and the congregation clapped and
> sang along. The later service was more
> traditional. You weren't "assigned" to either
> service. You could attend the one you liked
> best... heck, you could even go to both if you
> wanted! The doors were always open to anyone.
>
> Back to the point: In a normal religion, you'd be
> able to "vote with your feet" to find a fuller
> ward if you wanted, or to find one less crowded if
> you preferred intimate worship.

I TBM friend told me this story a few years ago. He lives in a rapidly growing of Utah County and the ward boundaries were changed to accommodate the growth. An older widow was told she must now attend a chapel further from her home than the one she had attended most of her adult life, that was within walking distance of her home, and where her long-time friends would still be attending. She no longer drove and attending the assigned ward meant she would have to find rides to and from every week.

She requested permission to keep attending where she was. Both bishops refused. So, she just quit going altogether.

Even my TBM friend thought it was stupid.

Thank you for sharing that. It is exactly what I'm talking about. What possible good could come from uprooting an elderly lady from the church she's attended for years with her family and friends?

It makes even less sense that in her new place of worship, she might be viewed as a "burden" to someone who had to pick her up and take her home. I'm sure she realized that.

Of course, Mormons aren't the only religion that can run off its members... hence my reference to not attending a church regularly in many years.

Still, I left my church over principal. This poor lady was just treated badly. I dislike unkindness to older people. The older I get, the less I like it.

"She requested permission to keep attending where she was. Both bishops refused. So, she just quit going altogether."

And what would have happened if she just kept going to her original church within walking distance?

Would they have?
-- Forcibly kept her from entering?
-- REJECT her tithing money until she relented and went to the ward miles away?
-- Take away her TR?


They achieved all that by their actions. Any church is to serve its congregation, not the other way around

Same story the ward take my DW to

Then there was the family whose daughter was molested by the son of someone in the bishopric.

The ward split. The family of the molested child asked to go to stay in their current ward so they wouldn't have to look at the molester and his family every week. Nt only that, they had to interview with the molesters father for their temple recommends. He got to decide if the molestee was good enough!

It was turned down on every level including SLC. It makes me sick just writing about it.

"She requested permission to keep attending where she was. Both bishops refused. So, she just quit going altogether."

And mobots claim their fake crazy-a$$ religion is NOT a cult? Only a cult would attempt to control people like this.

Yep, and only people who are allowing a cult to control them would go along with this crazy crap.

It's not like anyone would have the stones to do anything if that woman still attended the ward closest to her. What are they gonna do, call the police? I would keep going out of spite.

If I went to church at all, that is

This is old news, remember last information technology explosion, the printing press. Broke the power of that church. Well this new info tech is going to be bad for our latter day liers Mormon or otherwise. Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. Now Ye shall get the truth in megabytes.

I live in an area that is losing members very rapidly. When I resigned 8 years ago, there were 3 wards per ward house, and 2 large stakes in our "neighborhood." Last year, they braged that there are 4 stakes instead of 2! Growing? Not. There is now one ward per building, and each building is a "stake house." One small ward per stake. TSCC shuffles things around, and makes everything complicated, and re-defines its terms. What is a stake? What is a ward?

My "neighborhood" is very affluent, and there are quite a few Mormon general authorities living here. The "stake houses" are all on prime residential view lots. This was one of the first areas to force the members to do all the cleaning and maintenance of this prime real estate. TSCC announced that our stakes were the ones chosen to test out this great opportunity to serve--lucky us! Anyway, I feel our "stakes" have been spared, due to the influence of the GA's here.

To the point--finally. Our ward/stake didn't have enough kids to form a primary, and not enough adults to staff the callings and janitor work, and the chapel was about 1/4 full, at best. All of a sudden, I noticed a huge jam of cars in the parking lot--almost to overflowing, several Sundays in a row. Who were these people? I noticed the cars were smaller and older. About 10 of them pulled out, and I followed them, to see where these people came from. The cars led me West, to an section of small, more affordable homes in a densly-populated area, near State Street--way out of our area. The story is that these people were told that their stake house was not "up to code," and needed repairs, so all of them were told to attend our ward, quite far away. I had my TBM friend ask one of them how the repairs were coming along, and he said that no one could see any construction going on at all. My TBM friend says it's a ward full of strangers.

I find this a little bit hard to believe. How do they justify it? Do they have ward leaders AND stake leaders? What part of the country is this?