I think the most important quote in this article explains why religion was made up in the first place.
"Religion is one of the most powerful tools to use for enslaving our minds and souls, because it manipulates us to think that we are weak and powerless, and need to rely on a savior to save us. This causes us to think like slaves, making us easier to be controlled by the Dark Forces."
The Christ conspracy has been debunked by real scholars and the fact that Christianity borrowed from pagans is old newsmwhich mostmChristiansnalready knewl
Templar Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yes, those same "real" scholars who claim that the > proof that Jesus really existed is that the > majority of them agree he did!
Yes, and the "debunking" consists of them saying, "We've debunked this!" :)
Perhaps you two should try reading some actual experts. You know,people with advanced degrees in ancient history who have been peer reviewed.You might learn just how silly your guys are,but I am not holding my breath.
quiz Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Agreed > Sadly a lot of the atheist and skeptical community > has fallen for the Jesus myth idea.
Look, you two: Your knee-jerk reactions are both sad and fallacious. NOT "believing" (and it is belief, not knowledge) that an actual "Jesus" existed, because evidence doesn't support that claim, is NOT the same as claiming "Jesus was a myth."
And the claimed "debunking" of the pagan roots of christianity simply doesn't exist. In fact, the majority of *christian* scholars agree that there is much in christianity that came directly from earlier paganism.
So rather than insult reasonable people who go by evidence instead of "beliefs," and who HAVE read "experts" (all of them, not just ones that side with their pre-conceptions), perhaps you could start being honest, start providing evidence for your claims (which, you notice, neither of you did), and stop calling people uninformed or saying they've "fallen" for things when that's not the case at all.
Seems reasonable, doesn't it?
The article the OP linked to is short, doesn't contain any references, and is poorly written. It's not by any means a good example of historical research. There IS considerable good, documented, historical research on the pagan origins of many parts of "christianity" -- much of it accepted by huge numbers of "christian" scholars. That article isn't in that group, but that doesn't mean pagan influences of "christian" beliefs and practices has been "debunked" -- it hasn't.
Why do 'supposedly believers' depend on ----- 'read this book or that by scholars (known to be biased humans)?
I am a believer in God and I have got the answer about Jesus multiple times using various methods.
Yes, the 'human person' the myth Jesus was based on did exist and is now a 'spirit' in heaven. No he was not God (anymore than we are all part of God) nor resurrected.
I admit it is like a testimony but why depend on 'humans' for information when you have 'God/Spirit'.
Because scholars have studied the issue and are more likely to know what they are talking about than the average guy on the street. This is true of all fields. If I want to know about science, I go to a scientist. If I want to know about history, I go to a historian. BTW, I am not religious. I am a history major.
It actually sounds like we agree there was at least one 'historical' Jesus. My belief is that he certainly was not a 'God' and didn't do everything the bible claims he said and did (that is where the multiple people/myth/politics comes in).
I am asking you but would ask the other side also ----- You both read the various pro/con literature, argue about it weekly on RFM, then 'use your brain' to arrive at a conclusion. However, your conclusions differ from others.
I believe the evidence obviously does not seem like it convinces everyone, so at the end of your study do you get a feeling, impression, etc. that your conclusion is correct? You said 'brain' but is it really intuition, etc. at the end of the day?
Proof of that: When was the last time he talked to you?
Please explain when and under what circumstances that encounter took place and what he said to you. If you two actually sat down and chatted. please describe what he looked like and what he was wearing.
Also, if you happen to run into him again, please ask him to list the specific historical facts that proved he lived on the same planet as you.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2015 11:52PM by steve benson.
So, it's still a myth, right? This has been debated here before, but it seems rather silly. If the "Christ" part is a myth then it's all a myth. Who cares if a preacher, or group of preachers, one of which may have been named Jesus or Yeshua or whatever, lived 2,000 years ago and inspired the myth? Some here try to ridicule "mythers" but they themselves believe that all of the NT stories of Jesus aren't historical. It's all or nothing. There's no evidence that a preacher named Jesus lived and was crucified, but even if there was, the larger narrative is still a myth.
Steve, you know I don't have any adequate 'proof' of anything. That should be a given with my posts. I should probably ask for more specifics about some things but it wasn't important when I asked the general question which was to me at the time. Maybe I can do better in the future. I know the following will sound crazy!
Actually, I never have got a message directly from God/Source or Jesus but from my spirit guide(s) and passed relatives and friends.
Normally, I have communications/dreams a couple times a week based on if I have questions, problems, issues, etc..
I definitely have to ask for information and then get in an open meditative mode (deep breaths that clear my mind and relax my body ---- I practice various meditations/hypnotherapy daily for about 45 minutes) and write what comes into my mind (inspired writing). I also have guided meditations to communicate with spirit guides and different one for relatives. I do visualize one spirit guide (Mikall) sometimes as blond "normally" wearing a robe my relatives are wearing normal clothes. Sometimes I get answers in dreams ----- don't see any 'spirits' in dreams normally. I have also used a pendulum to verify the answer is the same. So by using a number of different methods for things, I think are important, I try to 'verify' the answers. I also sometimes after I receive a general answer see if there is anything from psychic mediums, channelers, etc. on the internet. Relating to Jesus --- he (one that claims he was the 'historical' Jesus of the bible in the spirit world) has been channeled and spoken through mediums to on the internet. The ones I listened to were pretty consistent that he was a man, like us, but did have some psychic abilities and did try to teach about the after life and did heal some but his words and deeds were not reported in the bible correctly (myth and political reasons).
Psychic information is another issue I am not sure where I get it (I suspect it comes from my spirit guide(s) but I never have visualization of specific sources of the information). It is not 100% accurate ----- I think my ego is trying to speed up the process. I try to practice this daily on very minor things that are not significant anyway. In a number of cases I got amazing information (that there is no way I should have been aware of) ---- normally specific news events) that was validated that was significant but I didn't normally tell my family in advance what I saw ----- so didn't prove much to say I saw it in advance after the validation.
Hopefully, I can get better and try to get more information in the future. I would like to convince my TBM family and have shared some experiences, at the time of occurrence, that woo'd them a little and made them a little more open but not enough.
If I can ever prove something I will attempt to share it by either forecasting something in advance or by getting other information that I should not know.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2015 10:46AM by spiritist.
spiritist Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I admit it is like a testimony but why depend on > 'humans' for information when you have > 'God/Spirit'.
Because there's no evidence any "god/spirit" exists. Your "testimony" has zero supporting evidence, can't be checked against any verifiable facts, and is nothing more than your own personal subjective "feelings." It's no more reliable than a mormon saying he "knows" the book of mormon is true.
I am just being truthful. I totally agree I cannot support my conclusions ----- just telling you where they came from.
Which is something most on the board will not admit. Because when it comes to a subject/issue without conclusive evidence no one is admitting they use (ego,inspiration, intuition, spirit, etc.) something other than just the evidence to come to a conclusion different from others. What really causes a different conclusion ----- you can say judgment or a similar term but what causes judgment to go one way or the other?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2015 12:36PM by spiritist.
spiritist Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I am just being truthful. I totally agree I cannot > support my conclusions ----- just telling you > where they came from.
Please understand I'm not denigrating you by what I'm about to say...
No, actually, you're NOT telling us where they come from. What you're telling us are your *assumptions* about where they come from. Assumptions that can't be backed up by evidence of any kind. Something happens you can't personally explain, and you call it "psychic" or "spiritual" or whatever. That's an argument from ignorance -- a fallacy, and for very good reasons.
If you said, "Well, I experienced this, and I can't explain it," that would be one thing. That's not what you have been doing. You've been telling us, "Well, I experienced this, and it's psychic/supernatural." That's not the case. And it's why the claims are (rightly) challenged.