When I talk to my husband he sees it as nagging. He said to me that he wants to lead the family and that I don't let him lead. We have kids together and he tends to ignore me and the kids a lot. I do understand that he has a stressful job. We go to marriage counselor since a few years but he doesn't even open up at our counseling sessions. He tells me that I should have faith in him and I do but it is very hard for me to be "lead" by someone who doesn't share his goals with me. To me it seems that he is not interested in me or the kids. The more I try to get his attention the more he blocks me out. I feel not connected to him at all but of course he still wants sex. We do it 1-2 a week no I don't enjoy it I would rather talk and find out what he is thinking about. What are his goals? He is a very closed person. Any suggestions?

Having left mormonism a long time ago (34 years), I have to admit that I grew out of the "the man leads the family" nonsense they push. The parents are a couple, not a man and his property-wife that needs to be led.

My wife and I (of 22 years) decide things together. We both "lead." When our ideas about what to do conflict, we look at why they conflict, and look for compromises that work for both of us -- all of us, actually, including the kids and their ideas. It's not MY family to lead, it's OUR family to work out all together.

He may feel that old pressure to "lead," but not know how, and that creates a lot of conflict. And of course sex isn't going to be all that great when there's so much other conflict going on.

My suggestion is to approach this not to "support him as the leader," but to let him know he doesn't HAVE to be the "leader," that you are all in this together, and have to work out plans and conflicts together -- no matter whose idea is the one that works best. Be partners, not leader and followers.

Best.

How long did you know each other before you married? Was he a "talking and sharing" machine during the courtship?

Maybe there's no "leading" going on because he's where he wanted to be, and so has no where to "lead" to? And thus there's nothing to open up about?

Maybe he's simply reached the "enduring to the end" stage of his life?

2 months

Well, maybe he's under the mistaken impression that being the leader means not sharing or communicating with his underlings at all.

I found, in the workplace, that sort of management style is rarely effective. The best managers share the business plan and accept suggestions and advice from the team of experts they've hired to execute that plan. Without subordinate buy-in, any plan will fail. You cannot effectively support a strong leader if you don't know where she or he is headed.

I also firmly believe that all types of relationships require trust, respect, and communication to survive. If all parties are not committed to working on those three things, or dealing with issues relating to those things when they come up, then the relationship will eventually die. It sounds to me like the two of you do not have any of those things and have not worked on any of them. He does not respect you or your opinion and he will not communicate. That causes you to resent and not respect him and also to not trust him to have your back. You, in turn, withhold communication.

I have to wonder if, in fact, the reason he does not share his goals with you is because he doesn't have any or that he thinks you will ridicule those goals for whatever reason. Or he doesn't see how you can support the goals. Or his goal is entirely self-serving: make X amount of money so I can pay for Y.

I'd strongly recommend counseling, but if he will not go (seeing as how he does not respect your opinion, he will probably not be open to doing so), you could at least go by yourself to work on communication skills.

If counselling isn't helping, I'd be hard pressed to think that anonymous internet responses to incomplete information would be really helpful to you.

Just reading your initial post left me with the impression that the issue is many layered.

What did the counselor say about your 'nagging'? Did they give you an alternative method to communicate your concerns with your husband? That would be less likely to sound like nagging to a male?

Has your counselor explained that when a woman has sex with a guy, but she is doing it more out of obligation than enjoyment, the guy knows this, and it is a very demotivating force in the relationship?

He opens up to his dad on the phone. After he is done talking to his dad I usually get upset that he told his dad things that I didn't know about. The decision making process is between him and his that after that he sometimes tells me what he will do or he will tell me later what he did. My "nagging" is my frustration about not feeling able to get the trust or openness that he shares with his dad. When his dad talks he listens and when I talk it seams he is trying to tune me out. When we have an disagreement he involves other people like his parents or the bishop to help me see his point of view. My reaction to this is me yelling at him "why didn't you marry your dad"? That makes him upset taking the car keys and leaving the house for a couple of hours leaving me alone at home to put the kids to bed. The therapist said that through time he will start trusting me and will separate from his dad. Sexually I do what he wants. He wants a bj fine with me. I resent him so much for getting other people on me. I do what he wants me to do, watch his tv shows, listen to his music. How can we meet in the middle? The therapist said to me that I should be patient but I am so annoyed.

You had known him just 2 months before marrying him. Way to go, Mormon Church.

"The therapist said that through time he will start trusting me and will separate from his dad."

You have at least 2 kids, so you've been married for a few years now? And he still hasn't started trusting you or separated from his dad. How much time does the therapist think will be needed?

"The therapist said to me that I should be patient"

Your therapist sounds incompetent, or like a church shill. Is he/she LDS?

The therapist is lds and female. We started seeing her when we were both TBMs. Now that we have left the church we are still seeing her.

If your current counselor is LDS, and you and your husband are not LDS any longer, I would suggest that your counselor likely has an LDS agenda, and you should consider changing to a new, non-LDS counselor.

I would tend to suspect an LDS counselor of tacitly reinforcing your husband's behavior and absolute authority as head of household, and that's not what you need. You need a counselor who will help you and your husband to learn to work as partners.

That being said, you and your husband both have to be open to change for counseling to work.

I went to an LDS female counselor when my marriage was in trouble.

The chance of her being the same is remote, but she was absolutely terrible. I have never seen such an incompetent therapist.

After the divorce (LDS therapist didn't help the marriage), I went to a new counselor, he was really, really good. It was like night and day different.

Change your counselor, and as others have suggested, maybe try a male one to see if he can connect with your husband.

op Wrote:
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> I do what he wants me to do, watch his tv shows, listen to his music.

Oh, HECK no. Half of this relationship should be about you and your needs. I had a boyfriend once who completely indulged my love of "brat pack" movies. He was upset if I accommodated him too much. He used to tell me, when I ask you what you want to do, *tell me what you want to do.* He was right about that.

op Wrote:
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> The
> therapist said to me that I should be patient but
> I am so annoyed.

Your therapist sucks - sorry.

Is your therapist a woman? This advice sounds like what a woman would give to one of her girlfriends. NOT what a therapist should be giving.

I would change to a different therapist, honestly.

If you are not making progress with your current counselor, it might be a good idea to try a new one.

To my way of thinking, marriage should be a partnership.

summer Wrote:
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> If you are not making progress with your current
> counselor, it might be a good idea to try a new
> one.
>
Yes, absolutely.

Not all counselors are created equal. Not all great counselors that can help a person one-on-one are so good at relationship counselling.

Marriage counseling is a difficult skill.

I agree.

May be he is taking a note from the 15 by acting like is knows all and no one else can question him even if he is wrong.

Call him Joe, Gordo or Tommy.

To mormons "lead" means "boss", get it? You are to "hearken unto the counsel of your husband, as he hearkens unto god".

Since his job is to obey unquestionably, yours is too.

He wants to merely do it his way. He interacts with you when he determines that it is appropriate to the circumstance, or when he determines that it does not compromise other more senior priorities. Your requests to "talk" are interpreted as reviewing his decisions and judgment -- which he dislikes.

This behavior IMO is just a thread of a very deep and difficult world view and relationship definition that will be extremely difficult to meaningfully alter. So many underlying premises and imagined roles would have to change in order for him to see your personhood the way you would like.

My Dad (BIC) and my Mom (convert) were a partnership...in their marriage and in our family business (cattle and grain farming). Mom deferred to Dad on matters of business but decisions were made jointly. I and my wife operate the same way. I've seen many TBM men who rule with an iron hand over their wives and children. Had I ever tried that on for size with my dear Catholic wife she would have ruled me with an iron frying pan....and rightly so.

Ron Burr

He is supposed to be your partner, not your boss. What do you get out of the relationship?

Have you confided in any close friends?

I've been married to my wife coming up on 47 years. It's not all been pretty and I haven't always been too open with her. Is your husband depressed? I was for years and until I worked on that problem I didn't feel like talking very much. Find a different counselor and try to get your husband in for a physical.

Anon4this

A few questions before Dr. Love shows up:

1.) Does your husband even *want* to go to a counselor?;

2.) This situation is obviously bothering you, but to what extent do you feel it is bothering him? Do you sense he wants a different kind of relationship with you, or is he just kind of going along with how things are?;

3.) How old are your children?;

4.) Now that you are both out of Mormonism, do you and he share any common interests?;

5.) What specifically would he say (or would *you* say) you nag him about?

Best wishes,

Tal (for Dr. Love)

Tell him what you want from him.

Tell him how his actions make you feel.

If he dosen't care enough to put forth an effort to make you

feel important and loved, then he dosen't care about your

feelings. If he doesn't care about your feelings, he doesn't

care about you.

You are the only one who can communicate with him about

your feelings and how you feel about him. We don't have

definitive answers for you since we don't know him or you.

All I know for sure is you have to communicate with each

other. If he doesn't want to, then its all over. Its no

good.


Good luck to you.

Fire your therapist.

What's up with you having to do all the work/be patient etc.?

What's his assignment? Bully you into submission?

Your so called therapist is out to lunch.

In the meantime I suggest you read the book "Codependent no more" by Melodie Beattie. Be prepared to get angry. It's ok, you should be.

I was just reading this article about how to choose a couples therapist. http://www.couplestherapyinc.com/how-to-choose-a-couples-therapist/

It sounds like a very challenging job because of the dynamics of working with two people simultaneously, and that a couple may not be as open/honest to the therapist.

According to the article, a lot of therapists will accept couples, but it's not really their thing, so you should look for someone who specializes in couples therapy.

My parents split up after I graduated from college - stepdad had an affair. The only counseling they had was LDS, and I remember my mom being so angry because they just told her what SHE should do differently. Needless to say, that counseling failed.

1.) Does your husband even *want* to go to a counselor?;
Yes he does but he hardly says a word during the session.

2.) This situation is obviously bothering you, but to what extent do you feel it is bothering him? Do you sense he wants a different kind of relationship with you, or is he just kind of going along with how things are?;
He likes the ignore the situation.

3.) How old are your children?;
To answer this question without given to much away we have a couple of kids under the age of 10.

4.) Now that you are both out of Mormonism, do you and he share any common interests?;
No not really but we both love our kids.

5.) What specifically would he say (or would *you* say) you nag him about?
That his dad leads our family. He asks his dad for advice and does what he says. Needless to say I don't like my father in law.

Last week I have been diagnosed with depression and the doctor has put me on meds. When I was single I never had depression or anything like that. I got married in my late 20ties. I know I need to snap out of it as I have kids to take care of. It doesn't help that he makes most of the money and therefore thinks he has more saying in how to spend it than me.
Yes, we need to switch counselors. The counselor told me that I would be blessed if I followed my husbands guidance and if he would do a money mistake not to worry about it as he would clean up his own mess.

You're in a dictatorship run by two men, not a marriage. Was your father in charge of everything also?

Nothing will change with your LDS therapist. Get a qualified expert who actually requires assignments/progress.

If he doesn't begin to consider your opinion and emotional well being, is that how you want to spend the rest of your life? That isn't modeling a good relationship for your children either.

Try positive reinforcement for positive behavior, anytime he does, or says something kind... Commend him for spending time with you and the kids... Try not to say anything negative about him or his father for a week and see if that makes any difference. Good luck to you.

op Wrote:
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> The counselor
> told me that I would be blessed if I followed my
> husbands guidance and if he would do a money
> mistake not to worry about it as he would clean up
> his own mess.

WTF? and OMG!

It sounds like your marriage is more "Me and You".

He is the "Me" leader and makes the decisions regarding everything: The marriage, the family, the kids, his career, etc.

This is totally different that a "WE" mentality where the two of you are one entity. The examples you have given show that you do not feel emotionally, mentally or even physically connected to him.

You are focusing on him opening up to you, but has he made an effort to listen to you while you are open?

Part of leadership is considering the imput of others, not dismissing it.

FYI-sex is going to be miserable if it is merely a mechanical response of being available to his need.

Your needs matter too and are valid! If you truly dislike sex, your husband is going to be fully aware you are less than enthusiastic, because unless he is a total idiot he knows you are just "putting up with it".

Let him know you do not feel connected to him.

I told my husband (now ex-husband) that I felt like a role in his life play. He told me I did have a role.

I wanted the relationship.

Best wishes,
RMM