Hi, I'm VardaElentari and I haven't been here for a long while. I left the church in 2002 and I've happily moved on with my life. However, this one thing happened that completely pissed me off and I feel a bit like I've regressed to the anger stage of ExMormonism.

My grandfather was fighting in Vietnam when my grandmother met the sister missionaries and commenced begging him by post mail for permission to get baptized. Eventually he gave in and she was baptized.

She raised their kids in the Mormon Church and he allowed it because it made her happy. He attended sacrament meeting with them because he believed families should go to church together. For 50 years he resisted baptism. He told me that belief in God was sufficient without all the extra stuff of the Mormon church.

For 50 years, Mormons who knew he wasn't baptized would encourage him to get baptized. Most Mormons had no idea he wasn't. He was a good man, he socialized with the members, and he was involved in his son's youth projects.

He loved his family more than anything. He'd never miss a family event. Even though he couldn't go in the temple, he came to every wedding reception of every grandchild. His son (my uncle) has 6 children, all temple-married and popping out kids, all under 25.

Last spring, a few months after starting chemo for lung cancer, my Papa traveled to SLC from his home in Colorado to be with his granddaughter for her wedding. He got sick with pneumonia and passed away in a hospital room. His last moments were stolen by my condescending uncle and his arrogant son who pushed me and my siblings away so they could give Papa a priesthood blessing. At his funeral back in Colorado, a Mormon funeral or course, it was announced by their ward bishop that a temple baptism was scheduled for a year later.

This spring, my Mormon mom, dad, grandmother, uncles, aunt, six cousins and their spouses and children, pretty much the whole family except for me and my fellow apostate siblings,all met at the temple and did that stuff they do for dead nonmembers.

He had 50 years to say yes but he didn't. Why can't the Mormons just love him for who he was? All along he just wasn't good enough for them. They probably saw him as a stubborn old man who didn't know what was good for him. They smugly fixed that for him as soon as they could.

I understand it makes my grandmother happy that they're sealed together now. After all, she is having to learn to live without her best friend and partner of 60 years, and now she can be the first wife of her forever husband and she is now eligible for resurrection and what not.

I'm just resentful because the Mormons stole my grandmother from me. Unless she was just destined to join a cult, I could have had a grandmother who didn't have to place her church before everything and everyone else. I could have had a grandmother who didn't have to look at me with pity and disappointment because I chose to leave the church. It's worse now that Papa's gone. His being a nonmember made our family gatherings bearable. Now that he's gone I can't stand the overwhelming smugness and self righteousness of my family (my exmo siblings excluded). I never have any desire to see those people again. Even being around my grandmother anymore creeps me out. She's obsessed with painting temples and listening to motab and watching conference reruns and all she talks about are my holy cousins and their spawn. I can't connect with her anymore and I wonder if I ever did. We used to talk for hours. And now all she wants to do is bear her testimony at me.

Okay, I think I've ranted plenty. Thanks for listening. This board is the best at listening to this stuff.

I hate the Mormons and their filthy putrid salty lake. I hate Utah and I'm never going back.

My Papa made everyone feel special and welcomed and loved. He accepted me no matter what my religion. I'm just really sad that he's gone.

Send in a resignation in his name :)

You didn't rant at all. This whole process is one of arrogance and conceit.

From a Mormon perspective, their reasoning is that once someone passes on, they will OF COURSE see that TSCC is the one and only truth and they will long for the saving ordinance of baptism no matter how willfully and how long they resisted it on this earth. I know, because that was my smug reasoning.

I now see it as I think you do: The workings of an arrogant cult with no respect for the wishes of people not of their faith.

Sorry you are going through it. Sorry they stole from you. The good news is you have fond memories of your Papa, and nobody can take those from you.

left4good Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I now see it as I think you do: The workings of an arrogant cult with no respect for the wishes of people not of their faith.

That's how I see it. It is disrespect to those who made different religious choices.

To the OP: It sounds like your grandfather was a wonderful man who truly valued his family. How lucky you were to have had him as a grandfather.

Thank you for your kind response. You're absolutely right. <3

I'm sorry for your loss. Try to console yourself with the fact if there is an afterlife, your grandpa is just laughing about how weird they all are, like you used to do together.

My family will rebaptize my brother who died recently. That is the only way they can do it, over his dead body. They can fool themselves all they want with secret passwords, handshakes, and pantomime shows... but they are delusional. It is a giant, presumptuous waste of time, and insulting on every level. Of course, Mormons know what's best for EVERYONE else.

Many of us relate to your anger and disgust. Write a letter if you want to and express yourself, send it, or not. You might feel better writing it down.

Writing a letter is a good idea. I've toyed around with the thought of telling my smug uncle just how fake and conceited I think he is and how I am offended by his actions during and after the death of his father. Even if I never send such a letter, it would probably feel great to compose. ;)

I'm leaving money and instructions so that I can have a tombstone that reads:

"Here lies Elder OldDog,
who knew the church was crap
but never removed his name,
to keep the TBMs from dunking
his poor, dead ass again.
Party on, Garth. Party on, Wayne."

That's hilarious! :P

I'm sorry. That's so terrible and I am offended on your and his behalf.

dogeatdog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sorry. That's so terrible and I am offended
> on your and his behalf.


Ditto.

Didn't Bill Maher put on a wizard hat and unbaptize Mitt R's FIL on his show a couple years ago? The reasoning was essentially the same as OP: hey, he had plenty of chance when he was alive, and wanted no part of it, leave the guy in peace.

The whole baptism for the dead thing, especially in cases like this, is just so smug and self-righteous. Oy!

I did not know that about Bill Maher. The story reminds me that the whole thing is rather ridiculous. Maybe I can manage to find humor in it. After all, I don't think their rituals actually accomplish anything.

Don't forget, unless the church changes its policies because it gets forced to by the courts, each one of us "apostates" and ex- former Mormons are going to be re-baptized by our family one year after we've checked out.

If you people are as bothered about that as I am, maybe we could form a coalition and get something going to challenge that. One person doesn't get as much attention as a group.

It irks me too. It isn't something I would want to have done for me after I'm gone. Why can't we opt out? There should be some provision for people to do that with the cult.

Yeah . . . this is why I sometimes wish I'd never had my name removed. However, if I continue on in an intelligent form after death and I'm aware of such activity on my behalf then I probably won't even care anymore. At least I hope I wouldn't care. It's the smugness and self righteous egotism that makes me want to stay away from those people in this life.

when ever I ask if some of my non-Mormon family was baptized after they died. I get a brush off, "if he didn't believe, it don't mean anything". Never get a straight answer. That is very arrogant to me.

Necromancers. A bunch of warlocks and witchs perfoming sorcery for the occult. It's Christian heresy.

That's exactly what it is, Christian heresy, especially going against one's beliefs to baptize someone after death when they weren't interested while alive. Much of Mormonism is heresy when you compare it to Christianity with the other stuff that goes on in the temple, as well as pretty much ignoring the big Christian holy days of Easter and Christmas.

Just remember it's all mumbo-jumbo. Have grandpa baptized in the Church of Beer--send certificate to snotty uncle. When grandma starts spouting off about the church, put on a colander and bear your testimony about the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Or better yet, remind her you are an adult with your own agency, and she should respect that.

I love the colander idea. That's a funny image!

My grandfather was as apostate as for as long as I knew him. He openly and bravely detested the church clear back in early part of the last century.

My grandmother heartily agreed with him since she had been brought up in a miserable polygamous home.

After she died, he remarried a woman she had never liked.

When they were all gone, he was sealed to both women. I'm pretty sure my grandmother rolled over in her grave when she found she would be a cowife of a woman she hated.

Again, the excuse was that they surely had mellowed in their dotage, and even more in outer darkness.

That's really sad. And gross. I try to be a tolerant person, and I mostly am, but the LDS people gross me out anymore.

I'm ashamed to admit it.

They didn't really baptize him. They performed a bogus ceremony of baptizing him, and that's all it is. It's hurtful because you know THEY believe it's for real.

Still, I wouldn't give it any further validation by even SAYING that they baptized him. If it's a fake ceremony performed by people with no permission or authority, then it's nothing more than a religious pool party.

Shoot, I bet if Christianity had originated in Siberia, baptism would never have even been invented. But having originated in a dusty dirty clime, all this cleansing stuff was born.

You're awesome and all that stuff you said is awesome and totally true. Thank you. <3

First of all, I'm really sorry for your loss. Losing a beloved grandparent is very difficult, but it's wonderful that you have all those great memories. Maybe you should write them down. Or perhaps write up a biography of him...it could give you peace and you'll be able to go back and read those things years from now.

Do your apostate siblings feel the same way? If so, you could have an un-baptism party for him and do the Bill Maher thing like Brother of Jerry mentioned. You can find that segment online. Then sit around, have some adult beverages and share memories of your Papa.

Please don't let the Morg get you down. I hope you can stay close to your grandmother. She's finding comfort the only way she knows and I'm sure she loves you very much.

Thank you for your kind words and encouragement. I really love your unbaptizing ceremony suggestion and I'm definitely going to share the idea with my siblings. That could be a healing experience for us.

Man, oh man, oh man, oh man, do I hear you! I know they baptized my brother - who was never a Mormon and was killed rather young in an accident - and I am filled with rage at them for doing so. The arrogance! The lack of respect! And the mocking of our grief!

I'm so sorry. That's horrible. :'(

My mother passed due to complications of the more severe form of multiple sclerosis several years back. My stepmother and my father are set on doing her temple work. My mother would rather rot in hell than be sealed to my dad (who she divorced when I was 1), and my stepmother (who my mom "affectionately" referred to by a not so nice pet name). If my mother did pass on to an afterlife and keeps an eye on me, she has heard me talk about the physical, mental, and emotional abuse I endured for years. I know she would never agree to the sealing. My stepmother likes to correct me that she knows my mom would be fine with it since they totally made friends with each other after my mom got sick and my dad got custody of me.

Of course I get the guilt trip because they want me to be there to be sealed to my parents. I refuse to take part in it. I've made myself clear I don't agree, but they'll do it anyway. Whatever, I don't believe it means anything anyway. Personally, I truly believe my stepmother is looking forward to feeling superior to my mom. After all, she may have married my dad years after the divorce, but she will get to be his first wife and that will give her dominion over my mother. Someone she has never liked and frequently told me never wanted me and wanted an abortion.

I love having screwed up family.

Oh my goodness. That's sad, and I'm sorry your family is that way. It's so hard not to be angry over it.

My dear mom, after she joined had all her dead family members dead dunked. I know for a fact that none of her nieces and nephews knew of it having occurred. That would have caused some fireworks, especially amongst the Catholics.

Ron Burr

They sealed my dead grandmother to the man she divorced over polygamy making her a posthumous polygamist.

How do you like them apples?

I'm just resentful because the Mormons stole (WTF) my grandmother from me.
I hate the Mormons and their (???) filthy putrid salty lake.
I hate Utah and I'm never going back…… Utah is the winner here!!!!

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Then why are you ridiculing other people's feelings?

You're no 'man'...