I just saw a bunch of pictures on Facebook of my niece and a bunch of other girls wearing Indian saris, including the dots on their foreheads. Naturally they're in a bunch of stupid poses, in addition to "Indian" poses plus these weird finger gestures girls do now in addition to the "duck face" and other creepy facial expressions (although most had the requisite smiles). Anyway, in the post it said it was a YW activity and that it was "great" (of course). There was even a hashtag (#sariNotSorry), as if they're oh so smart and know how to spell it.

Does anyone know what's up with this? Why are the YW dressing up like Indian woman? Why can't they leave anything alone?

Most likely some TBM adult put them up to this, and told them how "cool" they would be.

This is very offensive, unfortunately this used to be done quite a bit during the 60s-70s when it was cool to dress up as "Injuns" or even when blackface cartoons were still being passed around.

If they only knew how offensive the "dot" on their forehead can be. To wear native clothes of a country (Scottish, Dutch, etc...) is fun? Okay, I suppose it can be fun to try out new fashions. Yet, if one women dresses up as a Geisha it usually include some lame attempt at Japanese accents, is this funny? Is it cute? Does it demoralize or mock other culture or races?

Mormons don't think a lot of times when they do things like this. It's usually out of ignorance and they're only exposed to past generations who were racists and can't see beyond the Wasatch Mountains.

I agree - the dot is part of morning prayers to their gods, therefore it is religious. Do these girls know they are mocking the hindu religion? (rhetorical, I know they don't)

Question.

I'm attending a meeting in a couple weeks in which I will be serving several roles, or wearing several hats. The initials for one of the projects is TAM. So I have ordered a Scottish tam (a hat) to wear when we get to that portion of the meeting.

My heritage is actually mostly Scottish, although I was born and raised in the US and there isn't a Scottish thing about me.

Is this cultural appropriation and therefore inappropriate? Or can I wear the tam in the meeting because I have some Scottish heritage?

Need answer fast.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2015 10:40AM by dogzilla.

Maybe this article will help?

http://everydayfeminism.com/2013/09/cultural-exchange-and-cultural-appropriation/

It doesn't at all sound like you're appropriating and if the LDS girls had been more respectful, I would say they were appreciating, but it sounds more like they were dressing up and mocking the culture.

I've read what Indian women have to say about the sari and western women wearing them. There's no one opinion on the issue and frequently there's conflicting views. However, if it's an everyday piece of clothing it seems to be fine.

I know Gwen Stefani got a lot of flack for wearing saris, sarongs, and the bindi in the 90s, but what most people don't know is her ex's (Tony Kanal, who's Indian) mom is the one who placed the bindi on her forehead and gave her the clothing to wear.

It's a complex issue.

it's actually a 'tammy', derived from 'tam o'shanter', not the poem but a big floppy tartan hat (oversized beret, really) with a pom pom on the top. What is called a tammy these days is the same thing an aussie calls a beanie - a wooly, snug hat.

If you have no scottish heritage, the tammy is fine if you pick a military tartan like black watch, or any one of the royal stewart tartans. The only faux pas is the tartan hats with ginger wigs attached - that's actually really insulting. Wearing a scottish hat will cause no offense, but wearing tartan outfits sometimes does, that's why its's best to pick a military or royal tartan, then you are not claiming a family tartan as your own. There are many new tartans like 'pride of scotland' which can be also be worn by those without their own family tartan. Have fun and drink your whisky straight up.

Note: I was pretty clear. A good chunk of my heritage is Scottish. I ordered the tammie in my claimed clan tartan, despite not being able to prove that my Scottish ancestors were Highlanders. One can be Scottish and not a clansman.

There will be no actual Scots at the meeting (although probably half the participants will also have Scottish heritage), and the meeting will not be in Scotland. And I would find the fake ginger hair offensive myself. I look pretty darned Scottish just as I am without having to be pretend ginger.

I expect to be accused of nothing more than attention whoring, if that. ;>)

Note: I actually ordered two: one with a matching scarf that's heavy wool, for winter, and the one I'm wearing to the meeting, which is very lightweight wool and only good for air conditioned conference rooms. (I live in Florida and this meeting will happen in Texas. Too hot for wool.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2015 02:30PM by dogzilla.

The tam should be OK. However:

Don't paint up like Braveheart.

Don't regale them with bagpipes.

Don't lug in a caber to toss around.

And please don't bring in haggis hors d'oeuvres.

There. Did I miss any stereotypes? Little plastic Nessies, perhaps?

LMAO.

None of those things will happen, I promise. ;>)

Pardon me, what? Tartan tammies with Ginger hair on them are offensive??

I am a Scot. I don't mean an American with Scottish heritage, I mean an actual Scot, living in Scotland. These are called 'See You Jimmy hats' and are one of our main tourist exports, as well as common wear for sporting events, stag parties, political campaigns etc. You may wear one whether you are Scottish, have visited Scotland or merely cherish a passing whim to feel Scottish.

Clan tartans were a Victorian invention and are perpetuated mainly by tourist shops and American tartan-wearing societies. Most people know their clan tartan and will often choose to wear it, but I've never heard of anyone taking offence at a non-Scot 'borrowing' a tartan they're not 'entitled' to. We are generally pleased at the sight of a non-Scot wearing a kilt and they get a free pass on any small sartorial errors. Americans wearing crazy tartan suits are hilarious, not offensive, and will be bought a drink.

Cultural appropriation is part of the domination of one culture by the other, and attitude and intent is everything. America has never oppressed Scotland or suppressed our culture, so you have a lot of leeway in what you can do without offending; you will have to be a million times more careful in your attitude towards American Indian or African American cultural symbols. By the same token, while an English person can wear a See You Jimmy hat if it's done in the right spirit, a thoughtful English person will tread a bit more carefully round Scottish stereotypes than an American would have to - you are more likely to strike a nerve. General rule - laugh with us, not at us.

But never do the accent. Seriously. Just don't!

For the saris, as someone who has worn one as a bridesmaid at an Indian friend's wedding, and owns several salwar kameez bought by or with said friend, I can't see a problem per se with wearing them - they are gorgeous - the problem is more with a mocking attitude, if there was one. I am also uncomfortable about the bindi.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2015 05:54PM by cattofthegarage.

How offensive can it be when gobs of Indian street vendors elbow each other out of the way to put a dot on the forehead of every tourist they see and charge them for it?

Their whole religion is pretend, with temple costumes... They worship all things Disney...

I've seen pictures of girls in wedding dresses, dressing up for temple marriage indoctrination. I'm serious.

If it isn't in the YW manual, they don't know about it (respecting other cultures).

Let's all don some garments, aprons, veils, and baker's hats!!!!

#Duckface #GarmieSelfie #SacredNotSecret

Considering that part of sari wearing consists of a bare midriff (I did live in India for 3 years) I'm surprised that they were allowed to dress like this. Unless a bare midriff incites men to lustful thoughts less than bare shoulders do....

I was thinking the same thing.

They don't care. Mormons have been doing it with American Indian headdresses for years.
http://www.theideadoorfiles.com/index.php/family-home-evening/240-cub-scouts/pack-meeting

Like azanon said, imagine how pissed they would be if non-LDS made temple garments and clothing for cultural awareness projects or Halloween costumes.

Reminds me of the time a BYU ward had a "luau" party. It was to
celebrate Polynesian culture as there were many Polynesians in
the ward. The highlight of the evening was when a bunch of
white guys wearing grass skirts and coconut-shell "bras" did
some kind of comical, line-dance hula.

We show our appreciation by egregious mocking.

Here Reba recreates it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsSnEkrcQic

My sister is a nurse with extensive nursing experience, and---in addition---she taught nursing at university level for a number of years. When she was working in the Bay Area, she phoned me one day and asked about the significance of the bindi (the dot on the forehead, which is usually red but can also be black).

I said that there were several meanings (according to the area of the subcontinent that the bindi was customary in), but the easiest way to say it was: If a female is wearing a bindi, you can assume that she is NOT a widow!

My sister said that there was a newborn baby girl in the hospital my sister was working at, and that both of the parents had been very focused on putting the bindi on the baby's forehead, almost before anything else was done to the newborn infant.

I said: "Well, [the newborn baby] is NOT a widow, so it makes sense."

And my sister said: "She is a BABY!!! OF COURSE she is NOT a widow..."

...but what my sister did not realize was: in traditional Indian culture, a baby girl COULD "be a widow" if the male she had been married to/"promised" to died just before or just after she had been born.

The bindi, which is most often associated with marriage and prosperity, is a mark which simultaneously says: "This is NOT a widow" (in a society where widows are often considered, pretty brutally, "useless eaters").

And the bindi is also, especially now, in the twenty-first century, considered a mostly non-religious bit of cultural beautification for women who identify with the Indian subcontinent.

P.S. Males also, for a variety of reasons, wear bindis too. (I haven't seen this very much, but my understanding is that the male bindis are often more square in shape, and are probably more often black in color than is common for females.)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2015 02:57PM by tevai.

There is an explanation on YouTube of the Bindi:

"Traditional marriage in India has the parents of the bride providing a dowry to the husband. The night of the wedding, after the groom has consummated the marriage, he then carefully and lovingly scratches off the dot to see if he's won a motel, a Quickie Mart or a gas station."


I would provide the link, but it's a compilation video and the bit that follows the above routine is just too horrible to inflict on people I like.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is an explanation on YouTube of the Bindi:
>
> "Traditional marriage in India has the parents of
> the bride providing a dowry to the husband. The
> night of the wedding, after the groom has
> consummated the marriage, he then carefully and
> lovingly scratches off the dot to see if he's won
> a motel, a Quickie Mart or a gas station."
>
>
> I would provide the link, but it's a compilation
> video and the bit that follows the above routine
> is just too horrible to inflict on people I like.\


:D :D :D

This thread is worthless without links to pics.

Thank you for your cooperation.

ziller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread is worthless without links to pics.
>
> Thank you for your cooperation.


We need links and more information to know what is really going on. Otherwise it's all speculation.

ziller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread is worthless without links to pics.
>
> Thank you for your cooperation.

fixed it

http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/27591839.html

thread saving-ly yours

Every program the Morg has is for one goal only, its growth.