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Posted by: razing arizona ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 12:29PM

Need some honest opinions here.
I have been divorced over Church issues that are now covered in the essays. I am about four years divorced and ironically I live in the same Cul-de-sac in Arizona as my ex (thanks Judge). Neither of us has remarried ... PS we were married 35 years.
My youngest daughter is getting married in Early June into a Mega TBM family from Canada. My daughter will be married in the temple here in AZ and a reception and dinner, which I have allowed my ex-wife to plan without any input from me. ( Thats Ok too). I will be footing more than half the bill.
The new bride and groom and my ex-wife are traveling together to Canada to have a temple day together and another reception and dinner with her family and ward stake etc. Which his family will pay for I assume.
Here is my problem..On three occasions his family has flown to phoenix this year and stayed with my ex wife and had dinners ,sight seeing , Church and temple visits in Gilbert. I have not been invited to meet his family on any of these visits.
Remember I live in the same Cul-de-sac and within shouting distance of my ex-wife . While I am not hostile toward my ex I don't let her into my life as I do not trust her. I am sure she has shunned me to this family. I just feel like its not appropriate to do what they did. My daughter and her fiancé had every opportunity to meet me and his parents know where I live ..right down the street!!
Yeah, I could of gone over and banged on the door and invited myself in but really didn't know they were there or who they were until after the fact as my daughter told me.
Long story short is I am not going to travel to Canada to be shunned again in Mormon fashion as they do so well.
I know this is about them and I support them in their marriage here but Canada is not going to Happen. What I will do.....

I will be outside the AZ Temple for the wedding
I will meet his parents for the first time as they come out of the temple wedding here in AZ.
I will be a proud father at the reception and pay my part
I will still be the best dad as I always was.

Put the shoe on the other foot if you will. If I would have traveled fifteen hundred miles to Canada three times and stay with my son in law ( to be) parents and not meet both parents who live so close I would win the academy award for Mormon SHUNNING... god they do it so well.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 12:39PM

My TBM daughter is engaged and getting married next fall. I've posted about this several times. She is in Alaska working right now, but while she was in Utah (she didn't live here but about 10 miles away). She very seldom brought her fiance here. We are heathens. But he is also quite shy. He lives with his parents and she has spent A LOT of time there, but I see it in my situation as probably for the best. She brought her last boyfriend around here A LOT as she was living here. We all fell in love with him and she broke up with him in a very poor way. We were all very upset. He was a guy from the neighborhood and we know his family, so . . . but even her mormon mother figures thought she was foolish to break up with him.

Oh well. I like her fiance just as well, but I have never met his parents and will also probably meet them the day of the wedding, but I will not be outside the temple, but at my parents' grave 1 mile away with MOST of the rest of my family as we are mostly ex-mos.

No matter who they are, I know my daughter will someday (she is taking this harder than I am actually) regret getting married without us there. It is what it is. They don't own her though they want to believe they do. I was as mormon as she is if not worse, so I have to give her the right to live as she sees fit.

I think I'd go to Canada, but that is just me. Her dad doesn't plan on being at the temple for pictures, where I do. She is MY DAUGHTER after all. She doens't belong to THEM.

I'm just going to say--there will come a day when your daughter needs you. Make your presence known in her life. My daughter always comes to me for the difficult parts of her life. She puts on a good front for the mormon mothers she has. AND when she has kids, I know who will be babysitting them and helping her when she brings a new baby home and freaks out (as she will). I really do know there will be a day your daughter needs you more than the mormons. It may not be today, but it will happen.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2015 12:46PM by cl2.

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Posted by: 2thdoc ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 12:53PM

Oh, it's clearly shunning. Being in a similar position, I've come to think that they aren't doing it intentionally and aren't aware that they do it. I think they feel so uncomfortable around apostates that they can't help their shunning behavior.

My daughter married in the temple last summer and, like you, I met her in-laws on the day of the wedding. Of course I wasn't allowed in the temple to see my daughter's wedding, but even afterwards for the photos and the reception it was still as if I was invisible.

It was so clear to me that the TBMs just didn't know what to do or say around me. Their facial expressions and hand gestures were exaggerated to the point that I'd be grinning in amusement. It was if they thought they were talking with a young child that was hard of hearing rather than a middle aged man.

My other daughter is marrying in the Temple this summer, so here we go again.

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Posted by: anon1234 ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 12:55PM

"My daughter and her fiancé had every opportunity to meet me'
Are you vocal about your ex-Mormonism with your family? The hurt caused by the church can still be hurting your family relationships.

> I will still be the best dad as I always was.
good very important for later.

More details needed, to see if your accepting nature is being abused:
* Have you met the fiance?
* did the future son-in-law ask you for permission to marry your daughter?
* Did your daughter ask discuss a budget for the reception, or was it your ex-spouse?

If you have not met or had discussions DD and fiance, then not only shunned, but used. You can't buy love. but you can ask for a discussion about your standing with the DD, and make a decision on if you really want to pay for half if you are really not participating.

My wife yanked money when the budget kept growing and growing, her part kept shrinking and shirking, and she was told how bad she was for not supporting DD.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 01:03PM

This is how I would advise you handle the situation.

You are free to involve yourself anyway you want especially in whatever way your daughter, in particular, wants. Ask her what she would like you to do. This is her wedding, it's about her.
You will need to decide what level you want to be involved. Let your daughter know exactly what that is. She can do the inviting and involve you in what she wants.

If you want to be involved in your daughters life as much as possible in the future I suggest you get well acquainted with everyone. That includes the fiancee. You may need to extend your hand of friendship and be welcoming and respectful.

It's up to you to decide how much you want to be involved after consulting your daughter.
Put the shoe on her foot, give her the right to involve you anyway she wants. Let her know what you would like and what you will do if you are treated inconsiderately.

In my case, people have a very hard time shunning me. I am outgoing, friendly, and go right up to them and talk to them. If I want to be involved in a situation, I find a way to do it.

Reading my posts people will know that I am a strong advocate of taking your power back and owning it.
I advocate keeping your power and not giving others the power to intrude negatively into your life!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2015 02:22PM by SusieQ#1.

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Posted by: Heresy ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 01:10PM

I would talk to your daughter. You don't have to tell her you are hurt by this behavior, just say you are confused. Let her know you prefer to be more involved.

The behavior of your wife and the other parents is despicable, but that just gives you the opportunity to turn this into a situation where you are the good guy. Be generous, friendly and magnanamous about their bigoted behavior.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 02:28PM

Wait'll they take pains to keep you away from your grandkids.

In their minds, it's what you've earned and what you deserve. You have to be punished for your sins. It's not that they want to, it's just that they have to...

The church no longer sponsors blood atonement, just emotional atonement; they make you spill your feelings onto the earth, so that the smoke will ascend to heaven, as an offering.

Live and let live? That's for sissies...

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 03:03PM

I would just be cordial on the day of the wedding, and let them know that staying with you is an option when they visit. Or that failing that, you would love to do an activity or share a meal with them when they visit. All you can do is try. Then the ball is in their court.

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Posted by: dogblogger ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 04:46PM

You can't pick your family, but you can pick your friends. Pick some good ones and try to move on from the crappy family you didn't pick.

Be polite when/if you see them. Live well anyway.

And move.

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Posted by: madalice ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 04:58PM

Your daughter is being incredibly rude to not introduce you to her fiancees family. If they all like it or not, you ARE part of the family. I hope your daughters first child is the spitten image of you in every way.

That happened with my step son. We were being shunned, then barely tolerated. Their first child is like his grandfather in almost every way. To top it off, he's crazy about grandpa and insists on calling him every Sunday. He's only 4, but talks and talks and talks. His little sister who also looks like grandpa, is starting to chime in. She wants her talk time too. Love is the best revenge.

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Posted by: deconverted2010 ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 06:03PM

You Sir are being shunned. And I agree with madalice that is very rude of your daughter's to not introduce you to his fiance's parents at least once.

"I will be footing more than half the bill."
Wow, just wow that you're paying over 50% and still it seems they are completely ignoring you. Even if you were not paying any money, unless your relationship with your daughter were really bad, she should have introduced you, out of mere courtesy.

I would mention to her how you feel. Many times I give Mormon the benefit of the doubt but others I think they should know how they make others 'feel' with their actions, especially at such a great day in her life.

I hope you're not the only TBM at the reception and that you can be merry with other normal people.

Best of luck,

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 06:25PM

Good point. The daughter should have arranged an introduction.

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Posted by: sunnynomo ( )
Date: May 12, 2015 01:56PM

I guess I am feeling *witchy* this morning, but I would remind my daughter that she was raised with better manners. You are PAYING HALF. Good grief.

Ask to speak to her fiance. Introduce yourself to him and tell him you are looking forward to meeting him the next time they are in town. Don't ask. Tell.

If your daughter is going to play that she bows to men's authority, then exert yours. You are still her father. If you have to play their game, play dirty - they do.

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Posted by: UTtransplant ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 07:05PM

I am not Mormon, but my daughter is getting married soon. We moved a few years back, and she and her fiancé are in the town we were living in. We were back there a few months ago and wanted to meet his family. Her future in-laws turned down the invitation for a reason I can't remember but seemed kind of flimsy. We made a second very open ended invitation -breakfast, lunch, or dinner on any of 5 different days; no acceptance. We won't be back until the wedding in a few months, and we still have had no correspondence with them at all. They are pretty fundamentalist Christian and I think they don't approve of my daughter of us. Oh well, their loss! Both kids are great folks, they both have good jobs, and they just bought a house.

They are doing nothing for the wedding, not even the rehearsal dinner which is traditionally the parents of the groom's responsibility in that part of the country. Sadly, the kids are picking up that too (we gave them a significant budget and they can keep what they don't spend).

In summary, lots of non-Mormon in-laws can be dick-heads too.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2015 07:21PM by UTtransplant.

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Posted by: Ex-Sister Sinful Shoulders ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 07:32PM

This is astonishing, yet predictable at once. If his parents are affluent, or simply don't live in Utah, they know it is polite to meet their son's future in-laws prior to the wedding, particularly within walking distance...

It seems your daughter is on your wife's team for allowing you to be painted as some sort of reprehensible character only worthy to be an ATM. (You didn't even know her future in-laws were next door, when it would have been easy to meet them). Why go to Canada for more expense and disrespect?

I think I would send his parents a letter stating you were in town when they were, and why not stop by? They are playing this shame game also. When this is done, I hope you can move from your nightmare scenario.

Your daughter will be disappointed with her "dream wedding" being told to hearken to her husband, and veil her face from now on...

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Posted by: Alpiner ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 09:21PM

Have you invited your daughter and fiancee to your place?

If not... no, you're not being shunned. Your post didn't indicate that you've ever extended an invitation to them, merely that they know you're there. In this situation, they may view it as an imposition to wish to come visit you and are waiting for you to extend the invitation.

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Posted by: Razing Arizona ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 10:31PM

My daughter and I are on great terms I thought.. and yest they both have been to my home many times. More time of course to her mothers but I'm right on the path to mama bear.

My take is that it is the Mo' shunning now so close to the celestial wedding they have done into Mormon Mode to please my ex wife..
The tbms don't want to show a loving sign toward the apostate.I feel it carrys over to the new in Laws as well. No one talks about it freely they just know the drill. Learned from birth. Don't play with jonny- his family isn't active!
shun- shun - shun

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Posted by: caedmon ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 10:43PM

Ask your daughter what she would like you to do.

Our DD got married in the temple and we met the groom's parents at the reception (we did not wait our the temple) and have not seen them again in ten years despite living about twenty miles away.

We were very hurt by our exclusion from the marriage ceremony but we set aside our hurt, put smiles on our faces, and were as gracious as we could find it in our hearts to be. We decided that even if we weren't there for the wedding, we would be there for the marriage and that has paid off.

Hold your head high and be gracious.

Also, could the snub really be your ex trying to paint you as the evil apostate and actually meeting you might ruin her narrative?

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: May 11, 2015 10:51PM

And I would suspect also that your ex might be up to something. Talk to your daughter.

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Posted by: Felix ( )
Date: May 12, 2015 12:53AM

I have an EX-Bishop that has refused to shake my hand, twice. The first time was at my Neice's wedding reception. I gave him the bennefit of the doubt and assumed that he hadn't seen my extended hand. A few years later it happened again and their was no doubt
it was intentional.

I guess he takes the disfellowshiping thing literally. I had not committed any sin but took the intiative to excommunicate the church when I discovered its hidden history. I was rather outspoken to some in the ward about its secret history and my dislike of the church's hiding it. I also know that he had it out for apostates who speak against the church. He got into a conflict with Ed Decker when he tried to get his documentary "The God Makers" in the local theatre.

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Posted by: Ex-Sis ( )
Date: May 12, 2015 01:45AM

Very mature. That's what Jesus would do.

It is comical at times, how petty they are.

The ex has some sob narrative going on that she doesn't want disturbed...

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Posted by: lolly 18 ( )
Date: May 13, 2015 03:14PM

I get why you don't want to. But if you do not go to Canada and be in the reception line with her, she will miss you. And she does need her father. Whatever your ex or your daughter think. However awkward Canada will be, unless your dd tell you she doesn't want you there, you should go. (And to the rehearsal dinner before the wedding, too.

If I'd been in your shoes, I absolutely would have asked after the first visit, when my daughter was planning to introduce me to her prospective in-laws, and invite them to my home.

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