Just wondering because it is filled with narcissistic personalities..

From Joseph Smith to Brigham Young, and down the line, to modern day.. the church seems to have more than its fair share of narcissistic personality types.

Are they attracted to the church because of a narcissistic streak ie., get to become gods and goddesses and are already in embroyo, to the Mormon American princess prototypes, and the macho patriarchial men who get to make all the calls - both in the church and in the home ... until it becomes ad nauseum.

Is it a magnet for narcissists? Or does it cull narcissists once they're in it?

I found an old [now closed] thread from three years ago, here, on the same subject.. in case anyone's interested in visiting or revisiting the topic.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,416402,416447

Yes!

They've got my father.

Without labeling any dysfunctional behavior using specific terms, I would say that the cult grooms poor social behavior into people through it’s culture and doctrines.

They tell people they are god’s chosen ones, and discourage any association with outsiders who are labeled as literally Satan’s people. I’ve even heard a story here of people at cult functions laughing and sharing bragging stories of purposefully causing hardship and angst in non-Mormon peoples lives.

I think the cult breeds bad behavior into people by teaching and reinforcing the bad behavior. But of course, this is just my opinion. I have seen many examples in my life where people will behave badly if the group promotes and reinforces dysfunctional qualities in each other. Some corporate cultures are like that too. I vote nurture. Ego's on steroids, with social examples to adopt for ways to be mean.

torturednevermo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Without labeling any dysfunctional behavior using
> specific terms, I would say that the cult grooms
> poor social behavior into people through it’s
> culture and doctrines.
>
> They tell people they are god’s chosen ones, and
> discourage any association with outsiders who are
> labeled as literally Satan’s people. I’ve even
> heard a story here of people at cult functions
> laughing and sharing bragging stories of
> purposefully causing hardship and angst in
> non-Mormon peoples lives.
>
> I think the cult breeds bad behavior into people
> by teaching and reinforcing the bad behavior. But
> of course, this is just my opinion. I have seen
> many examples in my life where people will behave
> badly if the group promotes and reinforces
> dysfunctional qualities in each other. Some
> corporate cultures are like that too. I vote
> nurture. Ego's on steroids, with social examples
> to adopt for ways to be mean.

You just reminded me I have manager @ work who's a narcissistic bitch lol.

Fortunately, for me, although we're in the same department someone else over her and me both is in charge of me and my work. And that person is a sweetheart.

But the narcissist could as easily have been a sociopath, she's that manipulative.

She would never be a Mormon because that would go against her grain to have strict standards to live by. She enjoys being a home wrecker, and has zero reservations about screwing anyone. (As in do unto others, and then split.)

Just a mean, virulent, petty person - and that's how she fits the prototype of the Mormon narcissist.

One thing I'll say in defense of *most* Mormons, they do live by strict standards in most areas of their lives. It's just that the bar is set so high it becomes nearly impossible to attain (the perfectionist mentality.)

I've known plenty of mormons who would cut off their right arm to help you, but I have certainly seen my share of "So, I get secret priesthood superpower over other people? Awesome!" types.

One guy was an alcoholic blow-hard, but when when converted, and took his family with him....oooh boy....

Narcissists stride eagerly to the front of the chapel and feel really good sitting on the stand.

I liked sitting at the back, slumped down, day dreaming about sex.

That's funny. There was one time Donny Osmond sat through a sacrament meeting I attended a little more than ten years ago.

He sat on the very back row, surrounded by a couple of bodyguards, with his head down, very low profile.

As soon as the meeting ended, he was up and out of there before anyone knew who he was. I heard some others talking about him after he left, like it was meant to be a well guarded secret he was there.

I did see him, because I was near a back row at the time. He was on the left side of the chapel, I was sitting closer to the right side. I remember him with his head bowed down, which is why I didn't recognize him - only his thatch of black hair.

Now there's a narcissist for ya! That was one family that culled it. His parents are responsible for their upbringing. I understand from reading a little about his family life, that their father was a super control freak, who literally ran the ship that was Osmond.

Those kids didn't really have a choice.

Donny Osmond actually has a serious case of social anxiety. He's spoken about it on numerous occasions.

I get that a lot of people here seem to hate the Osmonds, but I find it hard to really blame them for a lot of their shortcomings. They were forced into entertainment at a young age, groomed to be the public face of their religion at the same time, and controlled by a very sociopathic father. At least one of them is gay and has had to live a lie for most of their life. They should be pitied.

I don't hate the Osmond's - in fact I loved them as a tweeny bopper, and then as a teenager - their music that is. And girls did swoon over Donny - he and Marie are close to the same age as I am.

I feel sorry for them too. About their dad pushing them into show biz. Yet I would think that there came a time they had a choice to leave it or stay. It was those two who stayed, even as their brothers went onto other ventures.

Marie especially has been besot with problems in her personal life - at least two divorces under her belt. One of her adopted children committing suicide. And another daughter coming out openly gay, which Marie supports her, to Marie's credit.

It would be interesting to find out how each of the Osmond children believe or not in the Mormon gospel, all these years later. They've been so brought up with Hollywood standards, that even as Mormons, it has to have had its effect on them and their outlooks - like Hollywood has molded all of us to some degree, including ex-Mos.

Rusty Shackleford Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Donny Osmond actually has a serious case of social
> anxiety. He's spoken about it on numerous
> occasions.
>
> I get that a lot of people here seem to hate the
> Osmonds, but I find it hard to really blame them
> for a lot of their shortcomings. They were forced
> into entertainment at a young age, groomed to be
> the public face of their religion at the same
> time, and controlled by a very sociopathic father.
> At least one of them is gay and has had to live a
> lie for most of their life. They should be pitied.

Back in the 90s I was listening to Howard Stern interview Donny Osmond. Since I am a Nevermo this was perfectly fine. Howard was asking him if he had ever seen a naked girl before he was married and things like that. I had to pull off the road because I was laughing so hard.

I always wondered just why poor Donny allowed that interview, but it sure was entertaining!

So many times I have seen someone state on this forum that one of the Osmonds is gay. I don't know which one. It seems odd to me as they have all been married for many many years and produced countless kids.

Doesn't seem like you read very closely, nobody here says it's one of them, it's one of their kids. Marie's?

Mary Lou Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So many times I have seen someone state on this
> forum that one of the Osmonds is gay. I don't
> know which one. It seems odd to me as they have
> all been married for many many years and produced
> countless kids.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

One of Marie's daughters is openly gay, and Marie supports her.

Her son who committed suicide in 2010 was also gay, according to some news reports.

Winks - I did read closely. This is what I was going off of and other posts that have been shared before. This comment it talking about George's children, not Marie's.

"I get that a lot of people here seem to hate the Osmonds, but I find it hard to really blame them for a lot of their shortcomings. They were forced into entertainment at a young age, groomed to be the public face of their religion at the same time, and controlled by a very sociopathic father. At least one of them is gay and has had to live a lie for most of their life. They should be pitied."

If one of them is gay - so be it. I have a lot of friends that are gay. It does not bother me. I feel sorry for the one that had to hide his feelings all these years.

Although there are many TBMs who are in it for a variety of reasons, I think it is definitely attractive to narcissistic personality types. Much of the social structure of the church is based on having an impressive title, or showing that you are 'better' than others, spiritually or whatever. A lot of Members are nothings on the real world, so it is nice for them to have a little bit of power and respect that comes from a high ranking in the ward. Many also like to use the church as a way to look down on others they deem as not as spiritual as themselves. The whole organization is inherently narcissistic.

Agreed. I saw lots of that when I was in it.

It was very competitive too. The way members deal with each other, not that much unlike life outside the church, but in some ways it was inherently more competitive and combative to be a Mormon than a non-Mormon I've found, since leaving.

Most of my adult friendships have been with non-Mormons. Have found I just have more in common, and with my personality type with theirs.

I agree with that, how it attracts narcissist types, as my ex-husband was definitely a narcissist who got off on the boost that came with having the priesthood.

There are also Mormon women who while they don't get the priesthood for having the wrong genitalia, it's a fit for them as they're socially inept and can get away with more in the Mormon culture than they would outside of it. There's also the type of woman who thinks she can get away with whatever she wants by being child-like who would be in for quite a shock in the real world if she actually had to grow up and act like an adult.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2015 08:52PM by adoylelb.

My two TBM sisters-in-law are like that. When my brother married his wife she quit her job, and hasn't worked outside the home since. (Nearly 37 years later..) They had 3 bio kids, and 10 adopted. She trained the older children to take care of the younger ones because of her "chronic fatigue syndrome" she's had since they've been married, so she can sleep while the kids were taking care of the younger ones. She trained her oldest adopted daughter to be the housemaid. Now the girl is well into her 20's my brother and his wife have all but divorced her. She's been abandoned by them since she is no longer useful to them.

Both sisters-in-law are the Mormon princess types. My brothers would wait on them hand and foot while the children were babies and toddlers. The women were just used to being pampered and coddled, and my brothers didn't seem to mind. It has worked for them all these years, so I've never said anything to them about it. It's just that neither woman would be able to make it in the outside world, if either had to go get a job and be self-sufficient.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2015 08:04AM by amyjomeg.

I have seen many Mormons who are so awkward, so socially inept, and so intellectually dull that they never achieve much in "the world."

But in Mormonism they are told they are so very special, because they are some of the few chosen ones. They hold the priesthood or "preside" over other people.

That in my view is the perfect cesspool for breeding narcissism.

my frmr wife was (is?) Clearly a sociopath, yet she got THE BIG OK from LDS, Inc.


Seems that TBMs 'can do no wrong' in Morland at least...

Churches in general are happy to take anyone as a member. Therefore, it is likely that there will be a large variety of personalities and some with mental illness or personality disorders.
Those of us that spent a long time in the LDS Church probably saw a lot of different personalities and some with mental health diagnoses.

I wonder about those that are left -- just how mentally healthy some really are.
Those that make the intellectual pursuit to investigate the history and change their mind are gone.

SusieQ#1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Churches in general are happy to take anyone as a
> member. Therefore, it is likely that there will be
> a large variety of personalities and some with
> mental illness or personality disorders.
> Those of us that spent a long time in the LDS
> Church probably saw a lot of different
> personalities and some with mental health
> diagnoses.
>
> I wonder about those that are left -- just how
> mentally healthy some really are.
> Those that make the intellectual pursuit to
> investigate the history and change their mind are
> gone.

______________________________

I've attended quite a few churches since leaving Mormon Inc behind. I don't recall meeting as many narcissistic types in the other churches I'd been to, or even as many who were identified as being mentally ill.

There was one seriously mentally ill woman, who was considered to have both mental illness, and mild retardation in one of the last wards I was in.

She wasn't allowed to be baptized, because the church leaders felt that because she wasn't mentally competent, she didn't need to be baptized (she wouldn't have understood what she was getting into, and was therefor not considered to have even the *accountability* of an eight year old child.)

There is no other church I'm aware of that would refuse to baptize a retarded or mentally ill person, if baptism were required for that religion. Only the Mormon church would exclude people like that.

Attracts them and promotes them too!

Yes, I believe it creates them. My father and his brother were only 2 years apart, raised the exact same way, and my father is so narcissistic and controlling. Whereas, his non-LDS brother was as opposite as it gets.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2015 02:43PM by NormaRae.

Oh yes, it breeds them and gives them an enviroment for them to flourish in. Just visit any ward in North Utah County.

narcissists are gullible, while mormonism attracts the gullible type.

It makes people into narcissists. It gives people a sense of entitlement that they don't deserve.

Classic example: Went to a Mormon meet and greet this weekend where we have dinner with 3 other couples. One guy was rich and smart and made sure we all knew it. He seemed to believe he was entitled to all his fame in the church and wordly success.

You must have met my ex John Lawson professor at BYU. He and my parents went to great lengths to continuously try to destroy me and destroy my relationship with my daughters. My daughters and I were having a great relationship and as soon as the 3 found they went to great lengths to destroy it. They will cheat and steal to destroy anyone who gets in their way!

I have no dog in the fight, but this professor had a horrible review as a teacher. Sadly, I had a professor or two who told me to the same thing "study for the exam" when I went to them during their office hours for help.

https://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=831638#ratingsList



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2021 09:32AM by messygoop.

In a New YOrk second

It attracts non-empiricist dependent personality types.

"Dependent personality disorder (DPD) is a type of anxious personality disorder. People with DPD often feel helpless, submissive or incapable of taking care of themselves. They may have trouble making simple decisions."

i.e. these need a responsible authoritative parent to tell them what to do so there are no hard decisions.

BUT once in the crab-barrel with everyone else, there is the wish to be somehow 'special' and so closer to and preferred by mommy/daddy.

BUT because 'specialness' is based upon (the appearance of) adherence to random rules, it becomes a pecking-order of appearances (hierarchical). The more 'special' are very proud of themselves and it looks like the "I'm better than you" part of narcissism. This is why also they are so judgmental and quick to condemn and gossip (and not deep thinkers)

Narcissists are tough to deal with i.e. headstrong, stubborn. Wouldn't put up with their crap.
This is why for men, Priority One is to create of these eunuchs.
This is why Mormon men are so weak.