I read somewhere (On this site I think) that it was once taught that when Native Americans converted and spent time in mormon communities, their skin became lighter. Was this an actual teaching?

In the October, 1960 General Conference, Spencer W. Kimball taught:

The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos; five were darker but equally delightsome. The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation…. At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents on the same reservation, in the same Hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather. There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation. These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

Oh my God...I can only imagine what would occur if that speech were given today. The racism inherent there is repugnant.

The basic reason for the observed whitening of the "lamanites" is that kids in suburban white family homes in Utah get less sun exposure than the same kids on the Rez. Also, kids on the Rez have had less sun exposure than their parents. No magic here.

It was just briefly mentioned in the above quote, but there was an active Indian Placement Program in the Church where native children were placed, essentially as foster children, in the homes of LDS families, in an effort to teach the children basic white Mormon middle class culture.

That program has long since been discontinued as misguided cultural imperialism. I'm sure that macaRomney thinks the program should have been continued and expanded, since white middle class American Mormon conservatism is the pinnacle of human development. :-/

codymac Wrote:
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> Oh my God...I can only imagine what would occur if
> that speech were given today. The racism inherent
> there is repugnant.


Here's how successful the church was in terms of fending off any guilt-feelings about racism:

Members 'knew' that a person 'earned' his birth status, so when, where and to whom you were born was merely the result of solving an equation in which the 'x,' 'y' & 'z' factors being computed were markers for your behavior in (...drum-roll...) The Pre-Existence!!

Los mormones were instructed in some basic points and really did a great job of running with, and embellishing them, before 1978, when ghawd told the prophet (the same one who spotted the Whiter than normal Lamanites) that things were going to change.

There was a 'war in heaven' before the Garden of Eden. This war was over how our 'mortality' was going to be carried out.

See, ghawd the father, Elohim, needed to provide his billions and billions of Spiritual children with the opportunity to gain 'mortal' bodies. We, all of us, existed with him as spirit beings, but to get ahead in 'life,' and be admitted to a good college, we needed 'mortal' or physical bodies. (The composition of spirit bodies is SOOO fine that men of science are unable to this date to perceive 'spirit' materials!)

And apparently, although he was an ALL-POWERFUL!! Being, there was only one way for Elohim to accomplish this. And to cut him some slack, it was the way it had worked for him. ("As man is, ghawd once was; as ghawd is, man may become." Learn it, live it!)

So he gathered ALL his spirit offspring at a Chuck E. Cheese in his neighborhood and explained what had to happen, you know, about having to be born, live and then die. And he let us know that there was a good chance that some of us, away from his presence and out from under his thumb, would fail to learn math, start drinking, and have unprotected sex! And thus be unable to return to live with him in his many mansions!

After presenting to us how problematic obtaining a body could be, he asked for suggestions on how the downside could be eliminated, so that ALL ghawd's chillins could return to live in his many splendored basements.

Lucifer immediately jumped up, hip-checking Jesus back onto his stool, then taking the podium and laying a note-strewn napkin on the lecturn. He then started babbling about being put in charge of "...all you numb-nuts monkeys..." in order to make sure no one slipped up and ruined their chances of becoming Celestialized by somehow managing to have a 'good time' on Earth. He was going to make sure that not one soul was lost to Elohim!

But then he totally screwed up by TELLING Elohim that when he, Lucifer, accomplished this deed, he expected some serious pay-back. Then winking at Jesus, Lucifer returned to his seat.

Then Jesus got up and, boy, was there a groan heard from about a third of the audience... Jesus proceeded to explain that in his plan all ghawd's chillins would have free agency. They could choose not to pay attention during algebra, and chose to violate the Word of Wisdom and choose to chase floosies, because, he, Jesus, would pay the price (to whom? Who gives him a receipt?) so that the 'price' for all the sins of mankind would be paid, and everyone could 'repent' and despite the really good times had on Earth, still make it into VIP heaven.

You can see why two-thirds of the host of heaven went with Jesus' plan! Party-time on Earth, Jesus pays the piper, versus no-fun on Earth because Lucifer is cracking the obedience whip. I'm surprised as many as did, one-third of the hosts of heaven, went with Lucifer!

Lucifer and his one-third refused to yield on this issue and WAR broke out! Yes, there was a War in Heaven! We don't know how long the war was waged, nor do we know what weaponry was used or the casualty counts on the two sides, but we DO know that Jesus' troops won and we know who won medals!! Everyone's performances during the war were noted, what we all did to help!

And we know who 'sat on the fence' and just watched...

Yep, mormons believe that Elohim was very pissed at these fence-sitters and that their reward/penalty for sitting it out was to be born Black. It was the mormon explanation for why Black folk could be treated as less than top drawer. They'd earned it.

For you see, your birth circumstances on Earth were considered to be in EXACT proportion to the choices and the actions YOU MADE during that War in Heaven!

Everything falls into place via this 'explanation'. Were you born in Utah to a mormon bishop whose dentistry practice earned him a pretty penny, so that you were raised as a privileged young person? It was because of your excellent service during the War in Heaven!

Were you born into a Black family living in abject poverty in African, with a life expectancy measured in single-digit years? It was because you freakin' SAT ON THE FENCE! A further consequence of this fence-sitting was "...no priesthood for you!"

Yep, we were taught that there was a direct correlation between your army service during the War in Heaven and the situation into which you were born.

So mormons, prior to 1978, had no issue with the disparities of birth situations. One got what one deserved, what one had earned. There was no need to "feel sorry" for those who weren't BIC. (Born In the Covenant, meaning you were born to a couple who'd been married in the temple, even if you were 9 pounds 4 ounces at birth, 7-1/2 months after your parents married.)

I've been out of the church for a long time, so I don't know how these old stories play now. It sure was convenient, guilt-wise, to 'know' that people born into misery were gleeful for the opportunity, knowing that it was the best they deserved because of their own actions, or lack thereof. There was absolutely no need to feel sorry for them, much less being expected to feel guilty because of your fabulous birth situation. It was hard for White and Delightsome mormons to be humble.




Summer of '64, waiting for my mission call, I was working on a survey crew for the State of Nevada, out of Las Vegas. Yep, I was helping build I-15 from the Moapa Valley, south to the CA border. It was a lot of fun, even though it was hot! Hot and sunny. And Mexicans, we take a good tan!

One day in late summer my girlfriend tells me that her mother, married to the Stake Patriarch, has commented to her that maybe she, my G/F, should think twice about continuing to date me... Because as was clear to see, I was getting darker!

The Book of Mormon says that when the Lamanites live righteously, they get White & Delightsome. Is there a corollary? According to the G/F's mom, if a Lamanite gets darker, it's cuz he's sinning! Given the state of Mormonism at the time, of course she wanted her daughter to be with another Whitey.

It's just not the same church I grew up in. And while I very much enjoyed it, I'll just leave it at that.

One question.

When you say "Yep, we were taught that there was a direct correlation between your army service during the War in Heaven and the situation into which you were born", does that mean that all of the nepotistic GAs were Medal of Honor winners?

Yeah, it had to be something like throwing themselves on a hand grenade to save Elohim's favorite slippers ... Something very showy!

We had a "Lamanite" stay in our home when I was a little kid. Her skin color didn't change, but she choked me very hard on two occasions.

> We had a "Lamanite" stay in
> our home when I was a little
> kid. Her skin color didn't
> change, but she choked me
> very hard on two occasions.


Was it some kind of kinky erotic asphyxiation sort of thing? Was it good for you? ...asking for Ziller...

I thought about asking that question but concluded it was inordinately crude. That your standards are lower than mine should give you pause!

One Lamanite's crude could well be a Whitey's inspiration!

But yeah, I'm not too distant from being the guy in the senior care living center whom all the nurses know to avoid.

They would avoid you only because you are already in a great relationship with a beautiful woman. The nurses will according focus their attentions on more available sugar daddies.

As for Tighty Whitey, that's Jordan and he'll be gone soon.

Now that Jordan has departed, I urge you to remember the neologism "intersectionality." It's the new "cultural Marxism" and soon all the cool post-facists will be using it.

No, it wasn't good for me, I was about 6 or 7 and was a very happy go lucky kid. I liked being nice and just wanted to have fun everyday. I thought she was pretty cool and liked her, but the choking scared me. One minute we're hanging out, the next, I'm being choked.

Kimball was delusional.
He intervieved me for my mission in Salt Lake City and as a result I almost turned around and went home!

The irony is that all humans are chameleons. Move us north or south thousands of miles and after several thousand years voila, our skin color changes. That has happened many times in HSS history.