http://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/christianity/joseph-smith-recalls-revelation-from-god-in-1843-nauvoo-interview


A few major points stand out. He admits there are no "gods". Therefore...all the temple B.S. about us becoming gods...is just make believe.

-Emma is running her fingers through his hair...she was a full accomplice. She was in on this from the beginning and in my mind completely aware of his criminal conduct and loved every cent of it.

-Joe was vulgar and spoke of himself constantly and when he could not get a "revelation"...he made it up and that was as good as any revelation from the "Lord". He made the ENTIRE thing up!

-Poor man comes knocking needing to buy land for his family and has 5000 dollars of goods to trade for it...Joe says..."nope, cash only...move along". Just like the church today. They don't give a rats ass if you can pay your bills...if you have to rob Peter to pay Paul to eat...and never tire of telling you the world is evil...be frugal, women stay home and breed and shut up and use paper plates and live in poverty...barter with your family and friends for childcare and other things...just pay us CASH now.

-Joe clearly has no fear of god...he repeats the same "first vision story"...minus the "Moroni's and the Nephi's and the angels"...and mentions his "trance" like state...he mentions that a few times. Sounds like the guy has some serious mental issue...maybe low blood sugar...epilepsy. Who knows.

-To the common human being he came across as base, vulgar and tactless. Joe admits to being unschooled and doesn't have a clue how to build a temple. So therefore has no clue how to build Lehi's ship either, so it was built by the "power of god". The 'power of god" is such an easy scapegoat to those nasty little issues of Engineering.

-He was a large and "fleshy" man. Hardly the strapping man the church depicts him as in paintings.

-Sensual lips? Obviously. Count the wives.

-He wants to "subdue" the world? Think about that for a minute. He wants to "subdue" the world beneath him. This is a dangerous man. How many LDS families do you know that are completely rendered destitute by this man and his ego and lies? How many people do you know that live half lives...devoid of joy, money, happiness,...who force their children to follow this criminal, destroying any self hood, any spark of life, any innocence out of them for this fraud of a human being? Joseph Smith's intentions were to separate a man from his purse and stomp on him like a damn bug never allowing him to stand up again. It is pure slavery.

-He was a democrat...a man who believes in slave ownership. Obviously...he CREATED slaves the moment people chose to immigrate to Nauvoo from overseas!

-I just can't get over Emma running her fingers through his hair. She was a bitch and I'm sick of people trying to take her out of the equation. This was Nauvoo...post banking fraud, post 14 year old girl affairs, post Haun's Mill, post stealing from the "gentiles" in Missouri, post counterfeiting coins to sell to immigrants upon arrival only to find out later they were almost wortless, post multiple polygamous marriages...to YOUNG freaking women! SHE KNEW!!!!

Amen!

What a pompous bore was the prophet of the prairie!

I did not take from his comments, however, that he did not believe in god, rather that he did not believe in the multiple gods of mythology—so swearing by them amounted to swearing by nothing.

His treatment of the newly arrived saint looking to buy a parcel of land was cruelly telling, wasn't it?

I wish today's TBMs could time travel back to see what he was like. I bet they would be quite a bit less enthusiastic with their praise to the man who communed with Jehovah.

The multiple god thing is telling because he preached that he and those who did the whole endowment thing would be come gods and godesses...so he was admitting that that concept was really something he made up if he did not believe in multiple gods.

Life on the prairie sounded horrible and gloomy. No trees? Dark earthen homes? No thanks.

Emma...grrrr...

Quite a contrast to the image cultco taught me when I was growing up.

"with an evident predominence of the animal propensities"
I'm going to work that phrase into a conversation if it's the last thing I do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2015 08:58PM by wine country girl.

Of course, the little brainwashed TBMs will say the whole thing was made up to "smear the good name of the prophet".

Just what I was thinking. The less than positive opinion that the interviewer had of J.S. would only prove to TBMs that he was indeed misunderstood and persecuted.

want2bx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just what I was thinking. The less than positive
> opinion that the interviewer had of J.S. would
> only prove to TBMs that he was indeed
> misunderstood and persecuted.

scoundrel !

Lovely summation from the lads of NY Weekly Express back down there close to The Man in 1943...

"His language is rude and vulgar, and his conduct light and trifling. He is fond of his own jokes, and low wit, and laughs immoderately when he thinks he has said a good thing.

He is a large, fleshy man, with a fine blue eye, large and sensual looking mouth and lips, with an evident predominence of the animal propensities."

Is the picture of this backwoods Hogwarts graduate becoming clear now?

"He is fond of his own jokes, and low wit, and laughs immoderately when he thinks he has said a good thing."


Reminds me of Templeton the rat in "Charlotte's Web".

Reminds me of G. Bitner Hinckley in General Conference.

Reminds me of Charles Manson.

Thanks for posting the article link.
I love reading actual eyewitness accounts from history. This one published in an eastern newspaper of the day.
A good read.

Living here in the "Kingdom on the Mississippi", its interesting to read the description of the layout of the land between Warsaw and Nauvoo. It really hasnt changed all that much in 170 years, with the exceptions of the roads being paved.
The descriptions of the Nauvoo House Hotel and Joseph's white framed "Mansion House" are very acurate, with the "common sitting room" at the front of the Joseph's house, (which I have been in several times, and find it fascinating that this interview took place there.)

Of course the church paints a different picture of JS, one of almost superhero proportions with Hollywood good looks and charisma. They have an image to sell along with the complete church package.

Funny how you dont hear about the several brothels and numerous taverns that dotted Nauvoo during that time period either.

Here is a tour/link to the Joseph Smith properties in Nauvoo that I borrowed from youtube. (Not my video or narration).

Just to give those RFMers an idea of the homes Joseph, Emma and their family lived in while the rank and file church members lived in one room log cabins or the sod and mud huts described in the above article.
And seeing as Joseph, by his own account wasnt an architect or skilled in construction, he didnt build these homes and hotel. Church members did, along with building the Nauvoo temple.

Sad really.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3jafSAuB3Ec

"... and frequently gets drunk..."

Here's the easy escape route for the faithful. The impression given by the article is that the reporter had one interview with fleshy Joe.

I've read other first person stories and have not come across any in which people who spent time with him described him as one to 'frequently get drunk...'

Then there's the mention of, as a 14 year old, immediately telling people about his vision of the poppa & son and being persecuted. That's the kind of lying we all know and love from the prophet!

I'd like to believe this article 100%, however, I also know yellow journalism existed then. So how much of it is factual? All? Part? Little? How would we know?

Its very hard to know for sure how accurate this reporter was with his writings. Its probably not too far off the mark. Perhaps some things were sensationalized. I agree that Joe probably had mental issues, was n a narcissist and enjoyed fleecing the flock and deluding others. Especially other mens wives. He loved to be adored as being important.

The biggest problems for critics of the Church are:

1. Most critics have apathy about tearing down the church. Imo there is nothing wrong about this at all. The problem though is that the LDS monster gets away with some much BS as a result because their defenders are hell bent on winning the PR battle.

2. Lots of "yellow journalism" from the first half of the 19th century and other non-credible anti-Mormon literature. Its certain ok to look into everything and research everything. But some matters are more effective, such as the total lack of any descendants of Father Lehi.

Spelling mistakes, grammar errors, and other issues happen on mobile phones so easily :(

True, but those were very good observations.

I'll put up with a little disorder to get to the truth. :)

Thanks for sharing this most interesting insight of a direct interview with a scoundrel. The interviewer had no problem mincing words. He cut straight to the point of Joe as an all too fallible human, with lots of gullible followers - who were easily led and deceived into submission.

By Joe running on and on about himself rather than the "church" or its "people," and the "word of God" spoken, goes to his narcissistic personality on display - another red flag of a con man. It was all about him, not others. Everything was how it made him feel, what his propensities were, and not on behalf of anyone else.

Some prophet, he was not. How others were so duped, is telling of their sensibilities. Good for the reporter he went prepared to scrutinize and observe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2015 12:06PM by amyjo.

Benjamin Winchester, former Philadelphia stake president, harbored Smith for a while in the 1830s and later made a similar observation about his boasting and self-absorption.

William Law, in his much later interview with Wilhelm Weyl, emphasized the fact that Emma was indeed Joseph's accomplice. Such things as transferring all properties into her name to make him judgment-proof.

I haven't read this before. Thank you for posting it.

A couple of things about Emma I have thought about today.

Emma knew that Joseph was sick and she knew he was spiraling downward. He had logorrhea, volubility and flight of ideas from one subject to the next. The reporter describes a man who is not mentally well. The reporter's descriptions seem to be mostly objective and not subjective.

Joseph admits to going into "trances"--even brags about it.(psychotic break or seizure disorder?) He also verbalized that some people called him a fool who surrounded himself with smart people.(paranoia?) Maybe disloyal smart people like Brigham Young. Emma had her back against the wall--her husband the leader and "prophet" was ill and Brigham Young and his backers were conspiring around her. We know that Brigham and Emma did not get along. People whispering about her behind her back about Joseph and his antics and plural wives.

Could it be that Emma running her fingers through his hair was an action of comfort or calming-- similar to what a loved one does to a child or sick person. Possibly trying to calm him down from his mania and covering for him as best as possible while he was being interviewed by a reporter?

After reading this article I tend to give more credence to the theory that Brigham Young really needed Joseph and his family out of the way. If Joseph was publicly outed as being mentally ill or insane the entire mormon movement would fall apart.

Joseph & Emma's own son David would eventually be institutionalized for mental illness and be declared insane. Today we know that mental illness can be genetic.

What would todays TBM members think if it turned out to be true that Brigham Young had participated in the demise of Joseph,Hyrum, Samuel and Don Carlos Smith?

Just thinking out loud.

Tertiary syphilis? Congenital syphilis? Whenever I mention the possibility, people go ballistic.

Here is a link to the same article only this is a BYU URL. Maybe TBMs would be more inclined to read it on BYU's site.

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/19CMNI/id/10554

The pdf sort of loads slowly. Give it a few extra seconds.

What if there were enter nets and cellphones back in his day?

Drunk Twittering-Texting-Posting.

can you please dig up the link again, I clicked on it and the story must have past, as there was nothing about Mormons on there.

nevermind