Haven't seen this posted on here so I thought I'd share:

http://puremormonism.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/conduct-unbecoming-member-of-church.html?m=1

Thoughts?

My first thought is the letter they dropped off to him.

There's something Kafkaesque about being accused of something
very non-specific and being told you can bring witnesses on
your own behalf.

Witnesses to what?

Imagine being arrested and put on trial. Imagine that the
charges are "stealing." That's it, just "stealing." No
mention of what you supposedly stole or when or where the
"stealing" took place. Imagine being told you are allowed to
have witnesses for your defense but you MUST have all your
witnesses there before we tell you what you supposedly stole or
when it supposedly happened.

As far as I can see this is how these things go. You are
assumed to KNOW what the charges against you are because you
are assumed to be guilty. In a real trial you are told exactly
what you supposedly did, and what the evidence against you is.
That allows you to present a defense. But the vague charges in
a "court of love" don't allow you to mount a defense, because
they assume you are guilty to start with. After all, if you
weren't guilty they wouldn't have held the court in the first
place, right?


My second thought is that the Church is cracking down on
independent thought. It has recently been canonized that
"obedience is the first law of heaven" (something not found in
the scriptures . . . they had to go back to an 1870s quote by
Joseph F. Smith and take it out of context). My guess is that
they want to scare the membership into not thinking out loud.
If it ever got out that a lot of the rank-and-file members
didn't swallow everything unquestioningly, the floodgates might
open.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2015 04:56PM by baura.

He was likely already judged guilty when the Stake President wrote the letter (including the misspelled words). Nothing will change that, and I doubt they would honestly allow a real defense anyhow.

My hope is that he will put some serious cracks in a few of the High Council members' heavily-loaded shelves tomorrow night.

I don't agree with many of Rock's conclusions, but I respect him greatly for actually discussing church issues in a clear, objective, and well-documented manner. I might even go to church if we could discuss doctrine and theology the way he does. The lack of intellectual openness in the church just crushes my soul and makes us all incredibly bored.

Also, you are not allowed to know whom the people were whom testified against you at your love court. In a real court, you face your accusers and your attorney (which you don't have in attendance at your love court) can ask your accusers questions, as in "let's get to the bottom of this."

My summons to appear at my love court told me that I could bring witnesses to it. As mentioned above, witnesses to just what exactly? Anyone with half a brain would have included the reason or a description of my misconduct requiring my presence in a love court.

It might be, as he conjectures, because of porn hacked from his accounts, but, having looked at some of his blog posts (I've never bothered with his site before) I think he's playing naive. Bitching about how the brethren have F-ed up the Gospel, essentially accusing them of apostasy, is pretty much asking for it.

He received his Invitation to a Beheading, accused of gnostical turpitude. All done with love of course.

His last piece was on the cult of obedience that seems to be being re-inforced more and more of late.

http://puremormonism.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/the-worst-law-of-heaven.html

That and his piece on what constitutues a proper tithe, have probably caused the higher ups enough ire to call him in.

I think the outcome is an already decided certainty. Rock knows his scriptures and the handbook back to front and inside out though and will certainly call them out on every deviance from scripture.

I doubt it will change anything but will hopefully make one or two start to pause and think.

On another note I fail to see what the Church is trying to acheive with the ongoing purge of members who do not conform to the 100% mormon stereotype.

Rock, Denver, Dehlin, Kelly, Calder are all still doing exactly what they were before and still have an audience. In my mind it changes nothing, and does nothing to address or make the issues go away.

All they are going to do is make the Church a much smaller, more hardcore cultish place. Which is fine if that's what they want but surely the financial numbers are going to stop adding up at some point if they carry on down this route.

In a fantasy world i'm hoping for the Mormon Spring, where Utah erupts like the French Revolution with the intellectuals leading the way and the angry mob storming the COB.

I have to confess, i really don't have a problem with them carting the Q15 to the revolutionary square and popping them under the Guillotine - their wives can go too if they like ;)

What we are witnessing from the TSCC are nothing more than a pantomime of crimes played out in these courts of love, where the accused is charged with the heresy of pointing out that the Earth actually moves around the sun. No evidence is admissible and the decision was made before the court convened to publicly burn both the reputation and the 'eternal future' of the accused.

These are not small issues. It can destroy marriages, affect businesses, cause isolation and depression. Some may think me harsh for offering no pity if leaders were fed to the guillotine, but based on church history, i can' really say i care.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2015 10:32AM by lilburne.

I hope the old-guard fights like hell to maintain the status quo. The flushing sound of members circling the ring will increase in freuqency and intensity. Do we want to give medicine to the dying, and prolong the death, or should we wish them godspeed and let fortune have its way?

If you believe, as I do, that the Crutch is false, then I can not see anyone hoping that the leadership will addapt to the changes taking place and stem the bleeding. Let the patient die.

Vocal people like the current batch of excommunicates is exactly what the cult has coming. Let them continue in thier path, and cheer them on! It just allows the Boomers, and X-ers to be the last burgeoning generations of the cult.

Good riddance I say.

HH =)

I'm very excited for that...particularly the beheadings of the nobility. :)

I really, REALLY hope he audio tapes this. Depending on the state (like mine) only 1 person in the conversation needs to know it is being taped.

Ditto.

I hope he lays a tape recorder on the table and turns it on and we'll see if they continue. If they don't he walks.

No, in reality they would remove him from the event, conduct it without him and inform he later of the decision.

Something about this guy that makes me want to drive 2 hours to go support in the face of the almighty judges of Mormondum. I don't carry the Old Church beliefs anymore like he does but I admire his knowledge,sincerity, and conviction. Love is my Gospel and he certainly seems to radiate that as a follower of Christ.

Rock is an interesting person and members here will have all types of conclusions about his motives, but there are two things I know from reading and interacting with him:

1. He knows his stuff and spends A LOT of time researching topics. He is also OPEN to being corrected and welcomes the opportunity. He cares about the truth.

2. He's a nice guy. Humble and unique.

Good luck tonight Rock. God speed you through this trial. Mosiah Chapter 17 comes to mind. Perhaps some rouge High Priest will be touched as he hears your story and discerns truth from your words.

bourneidentity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Something about this guy that makes me want to
> drive 2 hours to go support in the face of the
> almighty judges of Mormondum. I don't carry the
> Old Church beliefs anymore like he does but I
> admire his knowledge,sincerity, and conviction.
> Love is my Gospel and he certainly seems to
> radiate that as a follower of Christ.

He sure is.

You ought to head over, interact with and support him. I wish I had a chance to see him before tonight. This came all of the sudden - though 6 or 8 months ago I saw it coming. It would be fun. Go if you can.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2015 06:37PM by moremany.

My SP did it one better. For a new trial (having won an appeal after the first Love Council) I was told I had to put on my defense, to unknown charges, before they put on their case! I am a lawyer. I objected and they finally agreed they would go first at the hearing for which I was given three days notice. Still, the SP said he wouldn't tell me the charge. Only after I pointed out that I knew the rules did the SP finally tell me that the "conduct unbecoming" was that I told my DW about JS and so forth and that doing this was spouse abuse. I gave up and resigned. A kangaroo court is more just. But in leaving, I also promised I would continue telling my wife. I have especially made clear the origin of the garmies and how they were disgusting. Coffee? Why the WoW is phony. The BoA: how I knew enough about Egyptian from a course at MIT to know it was a fraud. Etc.

Origin of garments and how they were disgusting... Please give the details on this one rhgc.

Sounds intriguing.

1. The origin comes from the Masonic symbols on the garments which fits in with the robes, apron, etc. re the endowment ceremony.
2. The garments are disgusting in that they are ugly.
3. The objective of the garments is to keep people in line because a person feels guilt if they don't wear them after they have for a time.
4. The Bible does provide for special colorful robes etc. for the high priest once a year but nowhere did the mormon garments ever exist. Not in Adam's time. Not in Noah's time. Not in Abrham's time. Not in David's time. Not in Christ's time. Not in any time of the NT. They are disgusting because they are fake.

Obey! Obey! Obey! The cult of Mormonism screams this as the TOTAL of what they are about.

Wouldn't it be refreshing to hear Question! Question! Question! The church wants to help you know the truth that we hold. We stand behind what we claim and care about your concerns and questions.

This is what a church would do if they were sure they had the real truth. This church would have nothing to hide and, therefore, would sit down calmly, perhaps over lunch, having a civil, cordial discussion as normal people do.

Instead, they SUMMON members like Rock Waterman to a court where there will be no cordial discussion over lunch. He will be treated not as a member. No, he will be treated as a GUILTY MEMBER who, according to someone or other who turned him in who they will not even name, has committed apostasy in some form or other.

Personally Rock, I wish you the best, and my vote would also be for you to record every minute of their shenanigans and if they forbid your doing this, I would say that the last time you checked Sacramento was still in America where the laws give you permission to do this and then, turn and proudly walk out the door.

too bad that CA insists that all parties being recorded must know and agree to it. Were he to record with permission, and then release the audio, he would be criminally and civilly at risk.

Of course, the CA courts are so jammed up that it's not too likely that the criminal proceedings would amount to much, and as for the civil damages, figuring out the extent to which the church was damaged would be amusing. Very amusing!

He should get a kangaroo t-shirt for the occasion:
http://www.animalshirts.net/shirts/kangaroo-shirt.htm

We are on your side - the right side - the only side that doesn't take sides.

The letter basically says it's all bs (guilty until proven innocent) anyway, and they're obviously already prejudiced.

Bored Stiff, Broken Spirits, Business Stuff



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2015 06:30PM by moremany.

disfellowshipment is not a word!

Make up a religion, might as well make up words too...

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Sure, it's the root of: disfellowshipmentialitynessed

...as opposed to DATfellowshipment.

Rock Waterman believes the Book of Mormon is true. He does not believe that Joseph Smith had more than one wife.

For reasons like these, I think he is crazy. He can't have done very much research and done it with an open mind.

But it is really amusing to see the Mormons excommunicating someone for being too righteous and too Mormon.

If we let ourselves be dominated (TMC's fool-time occupation - and obsession - with itself) we'll be danged... now and forever.

IT is about (perceived) POWER - Dominion - control.

The Mormon church rules with an iron fist - and plays without rules... and as people are learning everyday, plays DIRTY.

LDS™ perverts the gospel (and claims to speak for JESUS CHRIST) and inserts itself in your phone book, your pocket book and your dusty diary books and journals.

I have crossed them all out.

TSCC don't like crosses or crossroads for that matter.

White clothe and black clothes.

If/ When you wake up/ START TO awaken, or are thought to be smarting mormonism, YOU'RE FIRED, Xed (which, as I just mentioned I already did - resignation is Xing tscc).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2015 02:06PM by moremany.

Where is he today?

Hey Rock- love

M@t

I'm here brothers. I'm here.
Thanks for the love.

Here's our Exit Interview courtesy John Dehlin.

http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2015/06/yerrrrr-out.html

Best wishes to you and your wife on your new path. Don't let the church contaminate your remaining years together. Celebrate your freedom!

Excommunicating Rock does not make his blog magically go away. What do church leaders think they are accomplishing with this?