I really didn't know anything about Caitlyn Jenner. I don't watch the Kardashian show. When I first saw her interview on ABC I thought she was a female athlete wearing men's clothes (which was sort of true in an ironic way). Then I saw her magazine cover and the preview of her upcoming show. Her voice sounds rather odd (like an old woman who's smoked too much speaking out of the side of her mouth) but she looks like what you would expect a wealthy, glamorous Hollywood celebrity (with access to top stylists and surgeons) to look like. Caitlyn Jenner doesn't disturb me at all and doesn't affect me any more than Jane Fonda or Sophia Loren would.

I've seen old pictures of Bruce Jenner and Bruce and Caitlyn look like totally different people. I really don't understand why so many people (mostly men but also a fair percentage of women) hate her. Is it because she's a sexy GMILF? I don't get it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2015 09:56PM by anybody.

Too many reasons for me. I feel like being gay.. trans.. whatever has become more of the new trendy thing to be. I accept all people just the same.

If you need me to bolster your self esteem by obtaining my approval.. then you're not really doing this to be true to yourself. If you want a sex change.. fine! I don't really need to know every detail of your elective surgery. Just do it and shut up!

Not trendy, just more and more accepted socially. Before, when it was considered so freakish to be trans you'd be threatened for your life, it wouldn't be worth it to be public about it.

Wow, this is hateful, ignorant, uneducated, AND bigoted at the same time. Good work bro!

I'm not sure I've seen hate.

Although I was accused of hate the other day for expressing my ambivalence when asked about Caitlyn Jenner. So who knows - it seems the word hate doesn't have the same meaning it once did.

I frankly don't give a rats ass what one does with their life in private - or generally in public.

However, I generally abhor publicity whores. Bruce Jenner was one and now it appears Caitlyn Jenner is one as well.

Tell that to the government & society in general that discriminate against her population. Once there's no more legislation or systemic or individual discriminatory violence against them, then maybe they can 'keep it to themselves.'

Seriously, this lame argument is trotted out EVERY TIME a civil/human rights issue is in the news. Domestic violence--it's private. Gay/lesbian rights--they're 'private.' Racism--it's private.

That argument is old and doesn't hold water.

anonforthisexmorm:

Tell what to the government & society in general???

In regards to "this lame argument" - I never made an argument.

What the hell are you rambling about?

The fact that in 49 states you can get away with murdering a trans person, & claim a "trans panic" defense.

49 states.

As a trans person, I'm glad that I don't live in any of them.

Then there's being discriminated against in jobs, housing, loans/credit, etc.

All I want a quiet life, & to be left alone. But I can't even do that because of the way things are.

This defense has been ruled inadmissible in many jurisdictions because of a complete lack of scientific research to support it.

Then why is California the only state in the USA with a law on the books about it? The other states don't.

The fact they have you convinced a trans person can be murdered in all other states and it's not a crime shows your ignorance and why the crooks in california political circles are still elected. the citizens of california reap what they have sown.

No one has convinced me of anything. I'm not ignorant, or brainwashed. I only mentioned 1 law. & I could be living in far worse places.

I also didn't back the people who represent my area in the state legislature. I backed people who lost.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2015 10:48AM by Tristan.

The "public vs. private" argument; the "keep it to yourself" argument. Reread what I said.

I never made such an argument.

Reread what I said.

Calling her a publicity whore for outing herself, after the press has hounded her begging for the story, is precisely that argument.

Bruce Jenner was a publicity whore long before he transitioned and became Kaitlyn. I stated that in my original comment.

He was on a little reality show you may have heard of where he pimped out his life for money.

Now, she has a new reality show where she'll pimp out her life for money.

I didn't call her a publicity whore for outing herself. You ascribed words to me that I didn't say.

I called her a publicity whore because she is a publicity whore.

There is no argument here. Just facts.

These facts have nothing to do with her transition. Again, I haven't accused her of doing this because of her transition.

My stating the facts has nothing to do with bigotry or hate.

If you don't like the facts - well - too bad.

As I stated before, I don't give a rats ass what he did in his personal life or what she now does in her personal life.

I still abhor publicity whores.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2015 01:06AM by Sparky.

I'm saying that it is society that makes this not just a personal issue. What she did is necessary for the marginalized population to which ahe belongs. Ending that violence is far bigger than the Kardashian family. If every single female celebrity is a publicity whore, fine. But that is an issue with celebrity culture, not Caitlyn herself. All she did in this instance was state her identity.

OK

I look at it as to each their own. It's not up to me to approve or disapprove, and it doesn't affect my life in any way, shape or form. It's just another form of gender identification. Nobody ever said that you had to be 100% male or female in every way.

LDS culture seems to say so.

I hate the coverage. Reminds me of an old Depeche Mode song.

New Dress
Sex jibe husband murders wife
Bomb blast victim fights for life
Girl Thirteen attacked with knife

Princess Di is wearing a new dress

Jet airliner shot from sky
Famine horror, millions die
Earthquake terror figures rise

Princes Di is wearing a new dress

You can't change the world
But you can change the facts
And when you change the facts
You change points of view
If you change points of view
You may change a vote
And when you change a vote
You may change the world

In black townships fires blaze
Prospects better premier says
Within sight are golden days

Princess Di is wearing a New Dress

You can't change the world
But you can change the facts
And when you change the facts
You change points of view
If you change points of view
You may change a vote
And when you change a vote
You may change the world

Princess Di is wearing a New Dress

Or this from Don Henley —

I make my living off the evening news
Just give me something
Something I can use
People love it when you lose
They love dirty laundry

Well, I coulda been an actor
But I wound up here
I just have to look good
I don't have to be clear
Come and whisper in my ear
Give us dirty laundry

Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down

Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em all around

We got the bubble headed
Bleached blonde
Comes on at five
She can tell you 'bout the plane crash
With a gleam in her eye
It's interesting when people die
Give us dirty laundry

Can we film the operation
Is the head dead yet
You know the boys in the newsroom
Got a running bet
Get the widow on the set
We need dirty laundry

You don't really need to find out
What's going on
You don't really want to know
Just how far it's gone
Just leave well enough alone
Eat your dirty laundry

Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down

Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're stiff
Kick 'em all around

Dirty little secrets
Dirty little lies
We got our dirty little fingers
In everybody's pie
We love to cut you down to size
We love dirty laundry

We can do the Innuendo
We can dance and sing
When it's said and done
We haven't told you a thing
We all know that Crap is King
Give us dirty laundry

http://www.transadvocate.com/remembering-our-dead-echos-from-our-fallen-sisters_n_324.htm

http://transgriot.blogspot.com/2008/02/gabrielles-gone.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2015 01:15AM by anybody.

I'm simply sick of this kind of thing being "news." It isn't - at least not anymore. Once the story was out it ceased to be news imo. Publicity whore, male or female or ??? Yes.

No reason to hate this person, but I don't know why it is news or why anyone beyond the immediate family cares one way or the other. It is just one more distraction from the real news in the world that is too complicated to fit into a shocking picture or soundbyte.

Most of us don't care about her...

I think we bandy around the word hate a little too easily sometimes. I don't hate Bruce Jenner for what he's doing, but I feel he needs some help. Still, I just ignore the coverage - there are far more important things going on in the world.

"But she has man hands!!!" (seinfeld)

I'm with the "don't really care a lot" group, although I like that for whatever reason, trans people are being spotlighted--the first step in being seen as normal and as un-noteworthy as most every other group although we have a ways to get to that point.

For those of us who find the Kardashians/Jenners,and their ilk "lackluster"--to put it mildly--and prefer to follow the lives of those with more worthy accomplishments, I must add that I find them as annoying as do many others. But I must say, good for them. They are taking advantage of a situation. They are taking advantage of people who deserve to be taken advantage of, and, they aren't even promising a reward in heaven.


I hate the idea, but I must admit that my disdain goes not toward them, but to that part of society that keeps them where they are. For those who find them worthy of their attention and envy. For those who feel they are a standard to aspire to. For those who can't get enough of their twitter, I am actually quite appalled and sad. Get your own life. Get out and accomplish something. Just for the sake of it. Not to be worshiped or envied, but because you wanted to do something that really counted.

I'm nobody's fan. I can appreciate what someone does if it's worthwhile. I can empathize with their struggles and wish them well--like Caitlyn. But in real life, to borrow the words from an old Dolly Parton song--my favorite--I have to be the "Star of (my own) show--I'm no back-up singer, and I won't be your band."


The upside? It's been a long time since we heard much about Paris Hilton, bless her heart.

I think Caitlyn Jenner is physically appealing as far as Hollywood norms of beauty go: super thin, sexy, glamorous, etc. I admit I feel for trans individuals who don't have similar resources.

The only reservations I have on the entire subject of transgender is when extremely young children are claimed to be self-identifying as transgender and hormone blockers are used to prevent puberty - before the kid in question has any meaningful opportunities to explore and understand what it means to be their bio sex in conjunction with exploring their sexuality. I'm well aware of the mantra that gender, bio sex and orientation are completely different things. I lean toward the view that they influence and interact with each other, and are enormously complicated by rigid socially constructed/enforced gender roles, far more than is currently believed. This has no impact on my worldview that all people deserve respect and dignity regardless of differences. The only thing I care about is how people treat each other, which is a lengthy and complex treatise all its own.

Jenner is getting a lot of attention because she's a celebrity to begin with. That she's challenging people's perceptions of what it means to be a woman in our culture is more complicated for me. It is with mixed emotions that I've noted the fixation on conforming to rigid traditional female beauty standards. As a cisgender woman who was lucky to be born with genes that helped me fit in, I find the focus on how "hot" transgender women are after transitioning problematic. What about transgender women who for whatever reason don't go under the knife or take medications to alter their appearance? I'm guessing the level of public adulation they get will differ considerably from that afforded to Jenner.

This whole Jenner thing shouldn't even be getting attention

s/he is a narcissist par excellence. If the sex change had been done privately and kept private, I would have no problem with it. The high publicity is what makes me hate it.

+1

Because she is threatening the sexuality of repressed men and challenging their world view.

+ a million

Another poster suggested that a basic Web search would give plenty of information about transphobia. They were correct.

Trans people (and transsexual women in particular) belong to the most marginalised, hated group in America. Discrimination, homelessness, joblessness, and family rejection is par for the course. Transsexual men may have a slightly easier time fitting into society at large but face the same issues, are fewer in number and hence not as visible to the public.

Straight men, feminists, gays, lesbians and religious conservatives all have some negative view of transsexuals. I don't know of any other group in society that unites such a wide spectrum of other groups in hate.

Caitlyn Jenner willingly walked into a firestorm of hate. No one does that for mere money or attention. She's still a champion. She doesn't make me uncomfortable and if we were shopping in the same store I would not be offended in any way.

I still don't understand why so many people hate her.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2015 01:01PM by anybody.

She wasted a ton of money catering to her narcism. She should have donated the money to "Doctors Without Borders" and done some good by helping unfortunate poor people.

Trans women of color are the most 'unfortunate' group of people in the world, if you count violence, sexual assault, murder, and legal discrimination as unfortunate.

Bruce Jenner was a very famous person and on a popular t.v. show. How long do you think it would take for the media to catch on to what happened to Caitlyn Jenner, had she gone through the transformation privately?

It's called controlling the narrative. I applaud it.

YES. It would have been public anyway. She didn't make it public. She couldn't have kept it to herself if she'd wanted to. This way, she did it her way.

A TV correspondent pointed out that, hey, this whole sex change thing hasn't hurt Jenner at all. In fact, his fortunes have doubled in few short days. A light went on in my head. Bing! Money is what so many things are all about.

That is my cynical side. But it's a wondrous thing to finally discover what you're all about and have the courage to make it happen. My heart goes out, however, to those who don't have the wealth and power that Jenner has, particularly those who do finally acknowledge who and what they are, but--unlike Jenner--are reviled for it.

Still, my cynical side intervenes yet again, specifically addressing Jenner. Jenner now successfully looks, more or less, like a woman (no, I don't think Jenner is attractive by any means, more like any 60-something male trying with long hair, added parts, and shaved legs) only because of his residual and apparently prodigious financial resources that are nonexistent for most transgender people. My one transgender friend of very limited resources (considered unemployable because no one will hire her) will have to get by as just a guy living in women's clothing.

So to help some of you out, I'm going to list some of the sources I used to understand the transgender experience in the USA.

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.92.7.1125

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/19361653.2012.718522#.VQBFvPnF8gw

http://louisianajusticeinstitute.blogspot.com/2013/10/police-harassment-and-violence-against.html

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2013/04/transgender.aspx

http://www.nacada.ksu.edu/Resources/Clearinghouse/View-Articles/Advising-issues-for-transgender-students.aspx

www.glaad.org/publications/victims-or-villains-examining-ten-years-transgender-images-television

Retrieved from www.buzzfeed.com/clairepires/janet-mock-opens-up-about-life-as-a-trans-sex-worker-at-age?utm_term=.vfV0pQ4ge#.nuL3yXlG

https://gendersociety.wordpress.com/2013/10/30/the-causes-and-the-consequences-of-controversies-around-transgender-rights/

time.com/63801/men-women-and-hijras-india-recognizes-third-gender/

There. I did half the work for you to become better educated about transgender people.