The beginning of the end for me was when my Dad died and all my mormon acquainances didn't seem that bothered by it, and kept saying "he's gone to a better place now". I was a tbm, but I'm sorry this is no consolation when a loved one dies. Now I'm experiencing the same thing again. My Nan just passed away, and people are joyful? I know it's a relief in a way because she was suffering, but regardless of whether there's an afterlife or not, this is not a happy occasion, and I am grief stricken. So whilst I spent last night crying, other family members are feeling sad 'but joyful' she's gone. Mormons are the worst, but religious people really put me off religion.

That "better place" crapola really drives me batty. My MIL was creepy happy all during my daughter's funeral--before and after. She was the center of attention. She got to run the show and boss me around. I just survived. She persisted in shoving Mormon poems, sayings, theology at me. Finally, I was done. With her. Mormon grief...sigh.

I think it is so disrespectful. It's not fine when someone dies, it is tragic. I think Mormons act happy to try to show how strong and unwavering their faith is.

The worst thing I saw on fb recently was a photo of parents and a brother standing next to their dead daughter/sister in hospital. She had been in an accident and lost her life and they stood next to her (in suits and tie/church clothes) SMILING! I mean, I know people deal with death in their own way but this was so disturbing.

I think it is so disrespectful. It's not fine when someone dies, it is tragic. I think Mormons act happy to try to show how strong and unwavering their faith is.

The worst thing I saw on fb recently was a photo of parents and a brother standing next to their dead daughter/sister in hospital. She had been in an accident and lost her life and they stood next to her (in suits and tie/church clothes) SMILING! I mean, I know people deal with death in their own way but this was so disturbing.

Weird. Not sure why that posted twice.

Actually, the nonMormon funerals I have been to have been more upbeat and celebrations of the life of the deceased than the "Plan of Salvation" Mormonism sales pitch funerals.

Celebrating someone's life is not being happy they are gone. They are trying to soften the blow, and this is a universal impulse. The Mormon vocabulary for doing so annoys me, but I appreciate the impulse.

I agree with you. However, there is a difference between "I wish to remember this wonderful person who I am happy existed!" and "I am glad they're dead!"

Which sentiment is being expressed is probably subject to misinterpretation.

edit: also, "I must pretend I am happy for them else my faith is a shambles" :P



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2015 11:26AM by schmendrick.

...That's an exact quote from a Mormon to my mother when her mother, my grandmother, died.

Grandma passed away in her caretaker daughter's (my mom's) house. Mom immediately called her Mormons, who, to their credit came right over to help. But within two hours of my grandmother's death, those very words of condolence were spoken to my grief stricken mom.

This is one of the peculiar attitudes (being happy at death) that I find infuriating.

Example: my ultra-tbm aunt is so busy with the church every damn day that after her own fathers funeral she has to go to a church social to play tennis with the church group?

Example: Grandma dies and my fakebook tbm cousin spends the time at disneyland goofing off with the kids posting pictures. She does the same vacation when her own brother is in the hospital.

These are the same kind that are always posting things about how much the gospel means to them etc...

I don't think most of them mourn. They tuck it away deep down inside and sometimes it will come out in other ways. Like someone else said, it shows how good of a mormon they are if they act as though this is great thing. I can for sure say most of my siblings and cousins have not felt that way about the deaths of all our parents in the past few years. Most of them are mormon. There are those few perfect little mormons who act as though this is all part of the plan.

I really HATE the talks mormon leaders give at funerals. My ex and my sister both got up and left when the leaders started talking at my aunt's funeral.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2015 10:25AM by cl2.

I would have to go with the idea of denial also.

Perhaps at a time of death, mormons must deeply question what is actually happening and they internally question everything conscious of it or not.

By creating a facade of happiness and excitement, mormons can both give the appearance of being being good mormons, and avoid actually dealing with the loss. One might add this is the goal of religion in general.

The happiness at death response of mormons is actually a defensive tactic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2015 10:32AM by deco.

Growing up Catholic, I felt like my family and friends (along with Protestant friends) knew how to mourn. We believed that the deceased was going to heaven, but we still gave ourselves permission to mourn our loss.

A (nevermo) HS friend of mine died at the age of 17. I shed a few tears at the funeral. A mormon friend scolded me for crying. She insisted that I should be happy. I should have told her to fuck off. Instead, I ignored her and moved to sit by someone else.

It's wise to remember that everyone grieves/mourns differently. There is no manual. It's all a very personal experience that is dealt with on very different levels. There is no reason to find fault or criticize, or determine that they are not grieving the way you think they ought to. I have heard people make comments about how their behavior did not fit what they expected and find fault with it. One person's expectations have nothing to do with how someone else deals with death, grief and mourning.
There is no right or wrong thing to say to do.

Having lost my husband in Jan of 2013, knowing he was passing, body shutting down, etc, and making preparations under his direction for his services, I know first hand what it was like for me and my family to be part of his passing and his services.

What we may see or observe is often only a part of how people are grieving. Some people cry in public, some do not. What we see, as stoic or happy is often, very likely a cover for their deeper feelings. There is absolutely no way to determine or judge what the person is really going through or feeling. Not wise to think we do either.

We all feel some denial at the death of a loved one. Initially, it doesn't seem real. In fact, it can be very surreal. How can it be possible that he is no longer here? Then the mixed emotions: glad he is out of that pain, sad he is gone. It's a whirlwind of changes.

Everyone grieves differently. There are many factors that go into how people grieve. Some are traditional, religious or familial. Others are the individual trying to deal with death. It all happens to us, but it's different for everyone.

The kindest thing we can do is to support our loved ones when they are grieving and mourning and be there to listen, talk to, share time with, etc. This is not the time to give advice on how they are doing things wrong. But some may do that.
I have found that I need to recognize that others will sometimes say and do what may be odd or strange when dealing with someone who is grieving. That's OK. It happens.

As long as we all know we can grieve and mourn in our own way and others will respect and honor our process, it will get easier. Or if not easier, we will change in how we deal with the process.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2015 11:41AM by SusieQ#1.

Usually I put my grief in a box and put the lid on it. Every once in awhile I will open the box, when there is no one is around, and consider the loss that was suffered. Now that's just me. We all handle these things differently.

I will say I was happy for my Grandmother when she died at 89. She was crippled up, in misery and confined to a wheel chair most of the time. I did mourn the loss but at the same was glad she didn't have to suffer in that miserable state. I didn't tell myself she is in a better place.

A crazy TBM is the cause of her final demise though. Crazy bitch just backed out of a parking space without looking and knocked my Grandmother to ground. Broke her back and pelvis. Instead of sticking around. She told my Aunt (her caretaker) and Grandma that she would put her name on the prayer rolls because she was on her way to the temple right now. Then drove away....dafuq. Police wouldn't count it as a hit and run because my aunt didn't leave my grandma on the freezing pavement waiting for an ambulance.

At least she put my grandma's name on the temple prayer roll....stupid bitch.

Not to veer too much off topic, but I get the feeling that no matter how much mormons talk about family, and encourage huge families, many of them lack true intimacy and connections because there are simply so many kids...they're just cogs in the wheel, and they don't really belong to your family--they belong to the church; I've read stories on RfM about people who left kids places without realizing it because they had so many to look after. Similarly, when someone dies, there are plenty more people to fill the gap like in a beehive, and to take the time stop and mourn means that you're taking time away from "laboring for the Lord", so you're just another cog in the cult's wheel. Church property. Dispensable.

When I was 11ish, my maternal grandmother died. My mom packed us up and we traveled to Utah to help my grandfather take care of business, so to speak. My most poignant memory of the time was cutting out the "sacred markings" on my grandmother's garments, then putting them in a cup so they could be burned. It seemed normal at the time, but looking back, it's bizarre and creepy.

I wanted to wear a grey and black dress to the funeral for no particular reason other than I liked the dress. My mom made me go change because "We aren't supposed to be sad she's gone, we can only be sad we won't see her for awhile."

I've lost a lot of friends to suicide and freak accidents in the last 15 years and only the last time I was able to process my emotions right away instead of going numb for a few years. I'm getting a little choked up thinking about her right now and while part of my mind says to stop, another part lets me know this is healthy.

SusieQ is right, people need to grieve in their own way, but it's sickening the way Mormonism treats people who don't grieve stoically.

Is it any wonder Mormonism produces such fucked up, developmentally arrested people?

I'm shortening and focussing my thoughts from my above reply in a much more snarky way: Grieving for a loved does nothing useful for the cult, so knock it off!

Now that I think about it, my grandma would have made a good Mormon because she didn't like negative emotions, even at funerals where it's acceptable to show grief. For some reason, she didn't like to deal with anything negative, so she hid emotions so well that she was actually a cold person.

I know people who have had serious emotional and mental problems down the road because they were not encouraged (or almost even allowed) to grieve. They thought they were supposed to act like the pillars of strength and show that they were just excited for the next life when they'd be together as a family again.

My husband's cousin and wife lost a little boy who was 8. It was so tragic. But they never showed themselves shedding a tear (when other people were around). The mother, a beautiful pianist, played a song she'd written for him at the funeral and when I felt like crying, I felt so small since they were not.

They divorced a few years later, they and all their other kids really went through some traumatic stuff in their lives. Only good thing is they're all out of the church now. The father told me a long time ago that he chalked it up to never handling their son's death and never really feeling like they could grieve and be honest and let their true feelings come out. They were responsible for everyone else. They had to be the strong ones and act happy so everybody else could be ok about it. Everyone but them.

When my grandfather died, my cousins (non-mormons) were crying so hard at the funeral. It was hard enough for me to hold it back just because I knew how badly I was going to miss him, but then hearing them sob made it almost impossible. Every time my mom would hear so much as a whimper out of me she'd be like "stop that. You know better. You know the plan of salvation, they don't. I wish they wouldn't do that. Too bad they don't understand. Blah, blah, blah."

I couldn't wait to get back to my grandma's house so I could let it out. As soon as we got there, I ran outside behind the old shed and cried my heart out. I look back on it now and think how unfair. Who was that death easier on? Us who had to stifle our feelings and pretend to be all happy? Or the ones who were allowed to grieve and let the funeral be theraputic like it's supposed to be? It's all so fucked up.

I also think it is horribly disrespectful, but remember, mormon funerals are intended to be missionary opportunities. So that fake happiness is meant to impress upon nonmembers how wonderful and true the mormon gospel is, because even in the face of tragedy, mormons are still happy and smiling because of their afterlife beliefs.

It's despicable, IMO.

And I think I've made a decision about how my dad's funeral will be handled. If he dies first, I won't have much control over this, but if my stepmom dies first, I am not having anything to do with the mormon service. If they would like to have one for my dad, they can come get him and hold one. I will host visiting hours at the funeral home and maybe offer a small graveside service for family, none of whom are also mormon. I'm just not sitting through that Plan of Salvation crap, listening to everyone laugh and joke about how my dad is dead, tee hee, isn't that terrific? That is not freakin' happening on my watch.

Nobody gets out of here alive.

It's how we deal with that reality that varies so hugely. And the various belief-systems have developed some codified means of dealing with it.

If the system you believe in says that the deceased has gone to a happier place, and you will eventually be able to join them there, that takes some of the sting out of the loss. If you believe that your loved one is no longer suffering (and you know that he/she WAS suffering), then whether they have simply disappeared into nothingness or are, in fact, in a new and happy state of consciousness, that's something to be happy about, too.

If you don't know - or don't believe - that there is an afterlife, and yet those around you try to force you to act as if there is one, that is misery piled on top of loss.

If your inner self needs to cry - weep, mourn, whatever - you should be allowed to do that, with the loving support of those around you.

There is no single "right way" to deal with grief. Trying to enforce some sort of behavior code on a grieving person is just WRONG.

I can't watch this video again... It makes me cry with love, happiness, memories, etc...

But it makes me happy. http://denali.littlethings.com/denali-dog-love-story/?utm_source=LTcom&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=animals

There were a lot of tears at my parents funeral...from TBM's because they were loved and missed. If anyone had played that "they're in a better place" card, I'd have told them to leave the church.

RB

I was chewed out by members for not being happy when my dad died. Never mind that I was dealing with the trauma and guilt of finding him, doing cpr, and getting him revived only to have him die at the hospital. No. I was supposed to be HAPPY about it. Sick freaks. Pretty sure there's a scripture about a time to mourn. oh yeah. That's in the BIBLE so doesn't count in the twisted mormon mind.

What a crock!! Had any "member" said something that disrespectful to me I have dropped the m'fer in his/her tracks!! What a bunch of scum!!!

Ron Burr

The Bible teaches that one should mourn with those who mourn. TSCC can't get anything right.

I like it. So true!

There are people who are really happy when someone dies, especially if they did some horrible crime, or tried to hurt you in some way.
I have a personal experience that fits my example.

I'm sorry for your loss. And I wanted to add that the way Mormons approach funerals is not a matter of how we all grieve different but rather a cult mind set that there should be no grief and that funeral should be used as a missionary opportunity.

Here are some thing that I, a convert to the church, and other convert friends found very weird about Mormon death, mourning and funerals.

- The very superficial condolences from the ward leaders in turn. It seemed that friends would step aside and let ward leaders do the comforting for them. People would even ask "Did the Bishop say we can take food to X family, 'cause you know they're inactive".

- The talks at the funeral service. So many times the "I have chosen to talk about the gospel because that what X would have wanted". Not much about the deceased for any comforting word for those grieving.

- There was a funeral where the TBM family of the deceased was on one side and the Catholic family was on the other side. Someone made a comment that how the Catholics seemed so sad because they didn't understand the gospel.

- The dress code. I was raised with the idea that you wear black or dark colours to a funeral. At the very least you dress up. At the mormon funerals people wore whatever, showed little reverence during the service and even critized those who wore black, why? Because it was nor a mourning ocassions but a happy ocassions and those in black just didn't get the gospel and eternal families.

- The expectation that ward members, even strangers provided for the after funeral reception. Some families even had specific demands.

- And above all, how the viewings and the after reception turned into a loud laughter social gathering. Usually people from other wards/stakes attended and they were all so happy catching up with each other's callings and children on missions that few remembered they were there for the family.

The first time I heard "everyone grieves/mourns differently" was from a defense attorney trying to defend a murderer husband who was out partying with his girlfriend after his wife's death. I've heard it many times since--usually from defense attorneys but it has become a standard line in our culture. Generally, when someone is grieving, they should be SAD. Right?

At the very least they should be honest and genuine, and not just following the party line of what some bullshit cult tells you to do.

I think Chicken Backpacks said it all.