Daniel C. Peterson says it was because the breastplate and spectacles were too "cumbersome".
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865631371/From-Darkness-unto-Light-takes-a-fresh-look-at-recovery-publication-of-the-Book-of-Mormon.html

I tried to comment that it was the same stone he used when he was arrested in 1826 but DN denied my comment, said I was being disruptive.

You were disruptive! Nothing spells 'disruptive' like pulling the fake beard off a department store Santa.

Dear Mr. Denial C Penisfun:

In your LDS Topic essay on the Book of Mormon Translation, LDS historians write:

"Joseph placed the seer stone in a hat, pressed his face into the hat to block out extraneous light, and read aloud the English words that appeared on the instrument."

Whether by spectacles or seer stone, the bottom line is God sent actual English words inside a darkened hat, on a rock Joe Smith dug up inside a well. Words from God, which appeared and written down onto paper directly are the text of the fundamental foundation scripture of Mormonism. Words which have been shown by science and sociologists to be horribly wrong.

Joseph didn't need to know any languages. And the racist, anachronistic, archaeologically incorrect statements of the Book of Mormon (and book of Abraham) came directly from Elohim. God is the author of some very disturbing words. Even the spelling, according to some BYU Scholarly sources. "Oliver Cowdery is reported to have testified in court that these tools enabled Joseph 'to read in English, the reformed Egyptian characters, which were engraved on the plates' ".

In the Ensign, Russel M. Nelson confirmed that Joseph saw English words --nay, English letters-- off the seer stone inside a hat, "Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat...when he came to proper names he could not pronounce, or long words, he spelled them out, and while I was writing them, if I made any mistake in spelling, he would stop me and correct my spelling although it was impossible for him to see how I was writing them down at the time." (said David Whitmer and Emma Smith on Joseph's translating).

Thus, the Book of Mormon words AND letters came directly from God. When the Book of Mormon talks about horses and dark-skin curses, that is directly from God. This is not a Joseph Smith problem. God will someday (conveniently in the afterlife) correct the archaeology, the anachronisms, the off-kilter linguistics, and all other language problems of that most corrected book.

Either Joseph and scribes and descriptions of translation are wrong, or God is wrong. Either way, the Book of Mormon is full of errors from God or from Joseph Smith. You pick, and with that choice, you have to decide whether this is just a silly fraud or some miraculous err-proned work of God.

So, Danny-boy, please explain away these errors based on how the translation process works.

Denial Penisfun also claims there is a 13th non-Mormon witness to the gold plates: Josiah Stowell, who hefted and saw them.

So, were there plates or not?

Some thoughtful analysis says no way, because gold plates of the size he claimed would have weighed perhaps over 100 lbs--enough that his story of running with them under arm, fending off would be thieves, could not have happen. ( http://www.mormonthink.com/runningweb.htm )

Apologists have re-countered saying that the plates were not pure gold, just golden in appearance. They find in South America evidence that Amerindians worked in a gold alloy called Tumbaga, which is primarily copper with some gold mixed in. ( http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Anachronisms/Gold_plates & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumbaga )

Other critics believe Joseph Smith made mock plates, perhaps of tin, because he wasn't rich enough to own any gold. Let’s assess the data…

If the plates actually existed, then they weighed around 50-60lbs according to those that hefted them (in the box or under cloth). The dimensions that "witnesses" offer of the box or the plates under the cloth, of 6x8x6 inches (or just under 300 cubic inches in volume). The plates were about as thin as "common tin" or ~0.5-1mm thick. See this wiki entry ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates#Described_composition_and_weight ). Apologists agree with these values. (See https://www.lds.org/ensign/1986/12/i-have-a-question for example.)

If these are accepted, then pure gold plates would have a weight of between 100-210lbs (the upper weight if the volume were pure gold without spaces), more than double what witnesses claim. (The calculation is based on gold's density of 0.7 lbs/cubed-inch X 300 cubed-inches ~= 210lbs solid mass, and 100 lbs for 50% empty space.)

Critics have contended that if he had actual plates (a big question) they were likely tin, because that would be financially accessible and workable by frontier folk like Smith. http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no105.htm

I doubt either gold or tin. Tin is not the right color. Though, it has a density of 0.26 lbs/cubed-inch and as such would have a volume weight for the plates around 40-80lbs. Tumbaga, as apologists claim, of mostly copper would fit the story if the plates had been from ancient American sources. Still, copper is about the right weight, with a density of 0.32 lbs/cubed-inch giving it a volume weight of around 50-90lbs.

My proposal is that IF the plates ever existed, we can assume that Smith simply thought of a book, but knowing paper couldn't endure thousands of years, proposed the ear-catching golden plates. And he could have easily made a forgery set of plates from brass-plated copper. It would be cheap, engravable, the correct weight and gold in color. Copper plates ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engraving#Terms ) were used regularly (and for hundreds of years before Smith) by printshops. Most cheap copper plates were right around 1mm thick, though some expensive ones are thicker. Copper printing plates were tossed away or re-used. Plates the size of a book page (6x8 inches) would be quite accessible in the bins outside a printshop.

The only problem is, copper is not gold in color. That is easily remedied by brass-plating them, which even a novice apprentice-blacksmith could do simply using zinc powder and lye (sodium hydroxide). This trick is done in elementary school science classes, using pennies. ( http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-turn-penny-into-gold-with-common-chemicals-272618/ )



Interestingly, Oliver Cowdery had apprenticed as a blacksmith and was adequately good at it before turning to teaching. See the 1890 (google scanned) book History of Utah: 1540-1886 By Hubert Howe Bancroft, Alfred Bates. ( http://books.google.com/books?id=f20G8sJ91Q4C&pg=PA57&dq=oliver+cowdery+blacksmith&hl=en&sa=X&ei=57ARVMPJPKf9sATMtIH4Dg&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=oliver%20cowdery%20blacksmith&f=false )


See this LDS CES manual reference to Oliver Cowdery as blacksmith. ( http://www.ldsces.org/manuals/pearl-of-great-price-student-manual/pgp-4-jsh-66.asp )

Also this 1884 book. ( http://books.google.com/books?id=Vy5OAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA77&lpg=PA77&dq=oliver+cowdery+blacksmith&source=bl&ots=76QO_ScWiY&sig=fSrhR3AbK_kteXsvniCCRMO_kig&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XsoRVNOpA5eQNsfCgPAO&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=oliver%20cowdery%20blacksmith&f=false )



And this 1913 book. ( http://books.google.com/books?id=qtQWAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA126&lpg=PA126&dq=oliver+cowdery+blacksmith&source=bl&ots=BP8krl3P4f&sig=0T6KpzW8XYopsWtwQ76M08Zp2aA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XsoRVNOpA5eQNsfCgPAO&ved=0CCAQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=oliver%20cowdery%20blacksmith&f=false )

Once you have gold-colored plates, all that was needed was to scratch some "caractors" (characters that may have come from the Detroit manuscript with latin short-hand script) into the surface of the plates (engraving copper plates are made just for that purpose). ( http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewthread/19000/ )


One can also imagine that it's far too much work to scratch a whole novel of made-up "caractors" into dozens of plates. Used printer plates would have engravings on at least one side and it would be apparent what they were on very close inspection. Cursory glances of a few unused blank plates ontop and used plates under them would suffice to "prove" the claims Smith made. The rest of the throw-away printer-engraven plates could be fastened together in a sealed portion, to make it look much more involved and real, without the risk of exposing the trick. Hence the sealed portion. And the reason the plates were not needed for translation, nor allowed to be seen except by a few witnesses who were family and already believers.

Of course, even at 50-60lbs, running with these fabricated plates would still prove very challenging, as exhibited by this fun test. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08wRRff8x0k

The LDS History dept and apologists are the ones who are running with a heavy burden. They are burdened with an antiquated story full of holes about the founding of their religious organization. The Apostles are out of breath, Running with the Olden Plates.

Interestingly, Joseph Smith may have conned others with forged plates, but he himself was conned with other forged plates. These are the famed Kinderhook plates, which scientist analyzed and found to be 19th century forgeries. Plate forgery in the mid 19th century was easy enough and fooled many, at least good enough to trick the LDS church into the 20th century (~1980). Faithful frontier witnesses of plates surely were as gullible. ( http://mormonthink.com/kinderhookweb.htm )



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2015 10:55AM by Jesux of Nazdaq.

If one carefully reads the so-called "testimony of eight witnesses" rather than what TSCC claims it says it becomes apparent that Joseph worded it in such a way that it is not at all clear what really occurred. The witnesses more than likely merely handled the BofM written manuscript since Joseph's previously prepared statement actually reads:

"and as many of the leaves (why not state "plates" if that's what they really handled?) as said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands" to which is added "and we also saw the engravings thereon" which could have easily been the paper Harris presented to Charles Anthon. Note that the statement says that the plates they were shown "have the appearance of gold". It nowhere states they were really gold nor that they had actually handled them or even examined them for that matter. The added statement toward the end "for we have seen and hefted" also more than likely is referring to the manuscript and not any plates since it never states exactly what they "hefted"!

What the Mormon church has claimed these witnesses saw and handled is what they want people to believe rather than what actually occurred. It's much like the published drawings of Joseph dictating with the gold plates in front of him rather than burying his head while doing a seer stone "hat trick".

In reading an ancestors journal from the time. He relates that people believed Joseph melted some brass candlesticks to make the plates.

A comment from redit:

"I guess that's why he didn't need the plates either because they were too cumbersome as well.

It's just a little too convenient that Joseph strove so hard for so long to acquire the plates and the Urim & Thummim to suddenly 'discover' that he needed neither to produce the Book of Mormon."

The interpreters were too *cumbersome* for JS, who was at least 6 feet tall, and they were handed down from biblical times, when men were typically 5'4" to 5'8". Hmmm.... (Except that I'm sure that Lehi through Moroni were actually all six-feet-plus and looked like Friberg's Magic Mike XXL...)

Anyway, I'm obviously not going to buy this book, but I wonder how much *new* evidence and documentation has *really* come out that the authors have tracked down....it's all been heavily mined I'm sure, and I'll bet the authors have "re-interpreted" old stuff.

And JS was really a treasure seeker, he was a con, so why not really work up a con?

Just my mean-spirited anti 2 cents....

Too cumbersome! No Way. Joseph Smith was extremely spry from what I was reading. Why that man ran through the woods with the gold plates in his arms, leaping over a log, fighting off a guy that hit him with a gun, then another guy, and of course you have to have a THIRD guy since it was a religious story -and he singlehandedly fought them all off one by one.

Seer stones were just more cool in his neighborhood back in the day. It was like their Google.

Oh, I forgot: since apologists have so many "could be's" and "might haves", my own little theory is that Joseph Smith's rock in a hat trick might have been a quick dodge to distract visitors who might show up unexpectedly while JS & Co. were working up the BoM manuscript. The "sheet" might have covered up the bible or other books and papers they were working from.

Also, notice how DCP reviews the book and marvels at the "new information" brought out in it, but he'd be the first to pooh-pooh any new, or previously published, "anti" material; I think he only embraced the rock-in-a-hat story because the evidence became overwhelming. I'm just cynical enough to start a search and find out if DCP ever pooh-poohed it as an anti lie...

I think Old Joe really liked his seer stone because he could carry it around with him shoved up his arse.

Think of the Christopher Walken monologue in Pulp Fiction about the gold watch in the Vietnam POW camp.

The other stuff was just too big to fit up there.

No one in the Church wants to admit that "scrying" (rock-in-a-hat) is an occult method of communicating with the dead.

The Church was founded in the occult. Scrying the BOM the way Joseph did would make it a "channeled" book.

But moving hundreds of pounds of gold quickly was no problem.

I guess God lightened that burden but not the Urim and Thummim?

Because he couldn't afford an iPad! http://ellentube.com/videos/0-y642cnv0/

Seriously though...
Well Hiram Page was receiving revelation with his seer stone and never needed any plates.

Course Hiram's seer stone was black and from the devil; yet Joseph's was brown and from God!. So to make sure that no one could use Page's devil seer stone again, it was ground down to dust!.


HIRAM PAGE. One of the witnesses to the Gold Plates, probably the first "false Prophet" that Joseph had to put into his place.

"While Page was living with the Whitmers in Fayette, New York, Smith arrived in August 1830 to discover Page using a "seerstone" to receive revelations for the church. The only available detail about the stone was that it was black. The revelations were regarding the organization and location of Zion. Cowdery and the Whitmer family believed the revelations Page had received were true. In response, Joseph Smith, the first president of the church, received a revelation during the conference in September of that year to have Cowdery go to Page and convince him that his revelations were of the devil (Doctrine and Covenants, Section 28:11). At the conference there was considerable discussion on the topic. Page agreed to discard the stone and the revelations he received and join in following Smith as the sole revelator for the church. The members present confirmed this unanimously with a vote. Later, the stone was ground to powder and the revelations purportedly received through it were burned."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiram_Page



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2015 04:50AM by dydimus.

"Cowdery and the Whitmer family believed the revelations Page had received were true. "

Here is my sign the church isn't true.

It was that easy to shift to Page. And Smith had actual ancient American scriptures under his hat.

It was because Joseph, being a poor farmboy, couldn't afford a proper crystal ball like the more successful magicians used.

Real reason? To get P%$^$#...as Chris Rock would say.

Yep, the special, sacred instruments that were preserved and
supplied by God for that specific purpose, were too cumbersome;
so he used his own, occult peepstone instead.

I hope God was watching and learned something.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2015 10:05PM by baura.