I had Zina Huntington Jacob's marriage to Joseph Smith dumped in my lap as a weakly TBM. I believed but with less strength of belief as the years passed. I had always hated the authoritarian, repressiveness, and one-size-fits all mentality I was getting preached about at church.

I wasn't looking for it. It arrived in a book on genealogy my sister sent me for Christmas. Looking into the book I found out my great great great grandmother was not only married to Brigham Young, but she had been married to a man who she never officially divorced and then I found out she had been married to another man - Joseph Smith.

My head started to spin. I started to look for sources to tell me this story.

So, why did you? I've been accused of not really believing. I've been accused to being offended and looking for reasons to leave. Both accusations are a bit true, but the facts literally landed in my lap.

What happened to you? Why did you go looking for what eventually was released as The Essays? Anyone have them be what landed into your life and started your research?

I think there is a common belief that some Mormons hold which strengthens the argument that they are led like Lemmings. It is that if you start researching you can only be doing for one of two reasons - to "strengthen" or "destroy" your testimony.

It is wrong. There are probably a host of reasons people start looking into the origins of Mormonism. For some reason the really knowing becomes more important than fake knowing it is true.

"Upon his hand on Papyrus" by Charles Larsen.. Read it. Believed it. Had the thought, "If Joseph Smith made that up, he made it ALL up." From that moment, I was mentally OUT.

I actually blundered into an article on Central American DNA. Was out mentally a week later.

Bishop, YM Pres, Gospel Doctrine teacher...None of that mattered. Done.

Wasn't one thing for me.

I was a master shelf builder and stacker. I had so many things on there that didn't make sense, but I just kept pilling them up. When new things came along I was able to re-arrange stuff and keep it from collapsing.

Things that stuck in my mind are silly things.

Global flood - I remember debating this concept with a bunch or guys on a motorcycle forum, where I was known as the resident god botherer. They just crushed me with scientific facts as I hid behind my pathetic little testimony.

Being a father myself - couldn't ever understand the prick that was supposed to be the loving sky daddy. He was an a-hole. Why couldn't he love me unconditionally, like I loved my children. Why would he kill his children to teach other children of his to be obedient to every whim he had?

Then one day I just asked myself a simple question, what if is ISN'T true. crash....... down came the shelf. Game over. Immediate loss of testimony. zero chance of it ever returning.

A YouTube video on the BoA showed up in the suggested video list after watching something completely unrelated. I watched the first half, but had to turn it off and settle down. It shook me, but I brushed it off. The CES letter kind of landed in my lap very shortly after this and I was pretty much done. After hundreds of hours of additional research, re-reading the whole BoM, hours of prayer, a couple temple trips, and a couple blessings, all within the following month or so, I knew I could never go back.

My shelf came down in an instant as well. I had just been released as EQP and early morning stipendiary seminary teacher when we moved out of the ward into a larger house (more offspring.) We had a new baby so I wasn't getting much sleep. In that combination of fatigue and spare time I accidentally allowed myself to ask if I really could believe it all. Crash!
It still took years and a long journey to finally disengage from the church.
But I hadn't done any particular research. There was already sufficient information in my head. I just hadn't consciously done the correlation.

Mine wasn't one thing per se; it was everything. I started to feel absolutely and completely overwhelmed as a new convert, being given callings in Presidencies, etc. I was told I was "speshul" and believed it- some. I kept trying for 11 long years, and I seriously started my research because I felt inside "How can I be so miserable if this is all true?" I started to see small inconsistencies, and the shelf started to fall speedily after that. I am grateful every day that I have as a non-member.

I was similar to you. Not looking to prove the church wrong, but started coming across damaging information. I loved the church and loved the members. I was decently obedient and wanted to go to the Celestial Kingdom.

In fact, I was trying to prove the critics wrong and so I studied studying their publication (partly so I could answer people's questions on my mission) but I gradually realized the critics were actually right and the church was not what it claimed to be.

I don't know when the real evidence got so overwhelming that I had to put aside all the faith promoting rumors, promises, good feelings, etc and deal with them but I did, and here I am.

I don't know how unique my situation is, but this information seemed to find me, if that makes sense? I don't attribute that to anything religious or spiritual, but once I applied all the same standards of intellectual rigor to church stuff that I did everything else then reality became apparent!

I have good relationships with those who are still TBM, and I think it's at least partly because I am still the same person, living the same life as before. This is hard for some, as I have not gone down the tubes, and become a foul mouthed reprobate, etc. (No offense meant to practicing foul mouthed reprobates, whatever floats your boat... :-))

Life is so much less complicated and stressful now. I really feel "blessed" not to be in the middle of all the "ward chaos"!

I was trying to prove for myself it was true through archaeology. It always bugged me that there's so much proof for other cultures/civilizations but nothing for BOM people.

Put it this way: I would love to see Gordon Hinckley have to explain his Non doctrinal version of the New and Everlasting Covenant of plural (polygamy) marriage to Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and John Taylor for that matter. I would really love the part where Gordon could testify of his version of things via the all important MORmON style two mouths approach, Gordon's second mouth being the new hole in his neck as the temple penalties were applied to him by brother Brigham, out of MORmON and Brigham Young style love of course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCN3AvH4JRg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2IGaXcgbk0

On my full time misson, I was frequently expected to explain MORmON polygamy to investigators, Making the flip quip that "it's not doctrinal" would not get the job done for the investigators, and it did not get it done for me, but it did get done when it came to destroying my testimony when Gordon BS Hinckley made that BS quip to Larry King. Hinckley also told Larry King that there was no such thing as MORmON fundamentalists.

Yah right! but the MORmON'S Nephites are real !!!

To strengthen my faith and defend it against critics. How ironic!

My SIL and BIL left TSCC. My wife was concerned but not too much. My SIL told her about the whole head stuffed in a hat. Didn't really believe it and blew it off. But I started looking as did my wife. Should be noted I have never liked TSCC and the authoritarian stance, guilt and shame that comes with it. Somehow I came across an article from NY Times that the church admitted Joey had at least 37 wives and they had a link to the essay. I read that. Then I read the translation of the BoM in the essay section. Then I read about the BoA....and then it snowballed/avalanch/dam broke. Found the CES letter. My friend who is gay directed me here. Found articles and stories from ex leadership and CES people. The second annointing/endowment. This was all in a 2 week span. I was never hard core so it wasn't as hard on me as it was my wife. As I have stated before, I feel very lucky she and I are in this together.

I stumbled upon some information that made it clear the church had been hiding information. For example, I found out Oliver Cowderey was related to JS and I couldn't imagine a reason why I wouldn't have known that after so many years in the church, seminary classes, BYU religion classes, etc.

I was VERY surprised to realize the church had been actively suppressing information and then of course I was intensely and insatiable curious to find out what else had been hidden. It wasn't the information itself at first, in other words, but just discovering that the church, Jesus Christ's very own organization, was dishonest.

I recall finding out about Joe's polygamy and hooking up with 14 year old girls....right at he time my daughter was turning 14. The rest of the stuff just started jumping at me from all directions...All I could think was, "I'm a complete idiot"

I liked to read and study, partly because I'm naturally that way, but also because "just live the Gospel" or "just love your neighbor" or "just do your duty" or "just follow the program" never made much sense to me and were often used as defense mechanisms by ignorant and arrogant people. I wanted to find out why God really wanted us to do so many things. Turns out there is no why, and never was, except other people wanting to control us.

I also wanted to excel at knowing about the gospel and the church. I thought I could help to save or improve other people that way. And that usually led to resentment or conflict with the easy answer crowd. But now I'm free to learn, free to excel if I put in the work, free to learn for its own sake. You can learn a huge amount about yourself and about human nature by studying church history and gospel doctrine. But no one inside the church wants to hear it and no one outside the church really cares. Oh well.

I had a son that left the church and I began pondering the result that decision would have on his life. Here and the one to come... Whatever that may be.

The very first piece of information regarding the church being a fraud came from a high councilman who called Joseph Smith a "whoremonger" during a brief stint working together on an Eagle Scout project.

He was being his normal self. Provocative and wanting to shock anyone he could with his vast knowledge of the scriptures or church history. That day though he hit a nerve and I was on my way to finding out the truth about Joseph Smith. The Book of Mormon. Polygamy. The Book of Abraham. The First Vision. Blacks and the priesthood. Brigham Young's business dealings. Brigham Young's false prophecies.

It was a perfect storm that has stuck around and is hitting 10's of thousands of TBM's in the United States, Canada and Europe.

Bunch of things over the course of a few years. The main items are below, but it's definitely not a complete list.

1. During my 20's I gradually realized that scientifically the old testament was indefensible.
2. Had a coworker challenge me on how I could actually believe this stuff and I couldn't say anything. Somebody else came to my rescue, but I realized at that moment just how far my belief had fallen.
3. I wasn't getting anything out of church. I kept trying harder and reading scriptures etc more but felt nothing.
4. Callings were awful and my fellow presidency members (in various presidencies) were consistently less active/working out of town/etc. I have a bunch of kids, two jobs, and had enough of my own problems and didn't need to do 3 other peoples stuff as well. It didn't make me lose my testimony, but it completely burned me out. I knew I couldn't go on like this and needed to make a major life change.
5. My wife likes romantic ebooks that often have some sexual content. We fough over it a couple times, not because I cared personally, but because I thought it was basically porn and the church made it very clear that porn was bad.
6. I read a blog post by a guy who had left the church and I realized that everything he said and explained resonated exactly with how I felt.

So #5 got me looking at doctrine more closely and I quickly came across various first presidency statements and teachings that had changed significantly. I had a big WTF moment because this stuff shouldn't be changing and then I learned about 'adam god', 'blood atonement', temple penalties, etc. Also disturbing. That led to wikipedia where I first learned about some book of mormon and book of abraham issues, which led off in all sorts of places. I started compiling a bunch of issues and at around 100 pages I came across the CES letter, which I felt did a better job than I was going to do.

What first drove me away from attending church was all the stupid fucking rules and the W of W that did not jibe with the way I wanted to live my life. If it ain't against the law and it's just there to control me...I ain't buyin' it. Nothing else about the cult is relevant. Those of you who were TBM's and then did your research and left, sometimes at great personal and emotional risk, are heroes to me.

Ron Burr

I was made curious by a Facebook post about John Dehlin from a friend. I looked him up and felt that he was trying to help people but the church still punished him. I made a decision: I wanted to understand the problems people were having enough to make them want to leave. After a month of research I was dropping callings.

I've been around long enough to notice that church history is being consistently sanitized. I was puzzled by that, thinking the history is the most interesting part.

Then someone uttered a simple declarative sentence. "The Nauvoo Endowment is all about polygamy." And I thought "Hm, I better look into this"

Three years of study later. Sure enough, the Nauvoo Endowment is all about polygamy.

I've said many times, there were many things that I had shelved, that had chinked my spiritual armor, were neglected until the one day that I was told that I had to go home, repent and ask forgiveness for being upset (yep, evidently I was offended. THANK YOU!) because a bishopric counselor overstepped his boundaries.


I had been told one version of the translating of the BOM all my life. Yet, when I was perusing the official website of the church to see what I did so wrong (so I could repent), I stumbled across an article in the Ensign that went against everything I knew. So, I investigated the website more, just to debunk that version, and found out there were SEVERAL different versions of the 'First Vision'! My shelf broke, a wrecking ball destroyed my spiritual foundation! I was OUT! At least in thought and mind, if not by official resignation.

only believers care enough to do research.


these days, most LDS adults are 'belongers' instead, which CoJCoLDS prefers.

This is my favorite post ever that I have started.

We just met some information and all that stuff Packer & Company preached about faking a testimony until you make a testimony came apart like an old worn out garment.

LDS Inc. has plenty of money.

LDS Inc. has plenty of people.

But LDS inc. doesn't have as many souls as they think they do. A little "what if I look at my religion this way that I never have entertained before" can start a see of doubt that can snowball into full blown disbelief.

It can't compare to Alma 32 and the seed of faith growing. The root system needed to prop up a strong Mormon belief in The 21st Century is indeed mighter than the sword and beyond belief.

LDS Inc. has to become more of a cult to grow such a system of roots in a mind.

I had a teacher tell me that non Mormon archeologists used the Book of Mormon for archeological research. I thought that sounded like complete bullshit and I was right.

A friend of mine posted the CESletter on Facebook and said that it contained all the reasons he no longer believed in the faith that he grew up with. I was very curious and wanted to know what it had to say, so I clicked the link and began reading. Before I even finished it I knew that I had been duped by a false religion my whole life. What a crazy feeling that was.

It doesn't burn the bosom but feels like being burnt.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2015 08:41PM by Elder Berry.

It was 1995. I'd had doubts for years that I'd been tamping down, but that year I moved from Utah to New York City. I met an excommunicated Mormon there who had written an essay called "God and I" that shook me to my bones because it called into question and ridiculed so many things that I still thought were sacred. I was so shaken that I decided I needed to do my own reading and become educated. That was the beginning of the end of my faith, not just in Mormonism but in God too.

My lovely wife had some chronic but invisible-to-others health conditions. "Inspired" bishops kept trying to call her to positions she couldn't physically and emotionally handle—in spite of multiple blessings given her, promising that if she were faithful, she'd have the ability to handle the callings and would recover in full from her illnesses.

I wasn't about to let the church's famous "you must be the weak link" guilt trip cause my wife to think this was somehow her fault.

Instead, I insisted on knowing why supposedly inspired men could...

1.) be prompted to give her the calling in the first place.
2.) consistently give her "blessings" that never came to pass.

So I increased my study of the scriptures and read the church magazines from cover to cover.

In the back of the Ensign around 2002, give or take a year, the church published a small acknowledgment of a ceremony for Elijah Abel. They, in their half-truth sort of way, said he was an early black pioneer and was being celebrated for that.

But the small grainy photo accompanying their article showed his grave marker, which could be read with a magnifying glass, indicating that he was one of the first blacks to hold the priesthood—back in Joseph Smith's day...and that he served missions for the church.

This led to an awareness that the church's version of its own history is inaccurate at best—and it all went down hill from there.

I had an inexplicable need to know what to expect before going through the temple for the first time. No one at church would answer my questions so, voila! I found everything I needed to know online.

It took less than 48 hours to go from TBM to total unbeliever.

I went through the temple anyway, I just had to experience the crazy for myself, I wasn't willing to accept any more mysteries or other people's characterizations of what the temple feels like.

SO. GLAD. I'M. OUT.

So you already were mentally out BEFORE you went through the temple?

That would have been the best way to do it!

Lets see here are a few things that lead to me leaving:
1) financial hardship = stopped paying tithing = bishop
calls to repentance = start paying tithing = loose house
and truck due to default on payment bishop promised the
lord would cover.
2) BOA
3) Elder quorum president began to stalk my wife. We
threatened charges and he disappeared and we where black
balled by ward leadership.
4) 100,000+ changes to the BOM
5) blood atonement
6) Adom - god
7) JS polygamy - polyandry
8) CES Letter
9) Church essays
etc, etc, etc

It took me and my wife 6 - 7 years to finally become enlightened.

I care what the truth is.

the only 'research' necessary is to observe the current dis-connects in TSCC; for me, the claims of Honesty, family values was enough to get me out.

I brought up an incident of a SS teacher teaching false information, but I was shouted down (teacher was an officer at the bank).


Facts (their words) "not important" ? Got It!

For the mental health and likewise safety of my children as well as myself. Along with seeing the 'sausage made' in HP leadership callings and observing first hand actions that I saw as fundamentally unkind and policies I was asked to carry out that for me were unethical and thus made it impossible to stay in the bishopric I was in.

I did a deep dive into the history, sociology, and social psychologigy to reach a 'point of view' grounded in facts and my personal interpretation.

Result: at a moment in time I concluded that I had been betrayed by the 15 for 55 years and likely by the 70's as well. Betrayed with guile. Betrayal is a powerful emotion. I accepted that I had been so very wrong for so many years. I accepted that I was in a damn cult. Shit. And that my family was in it too. Shit and double shit.

My shelf evaporated to dust in an instant during this week that "my eyes were opened".

I then began to see that I had still just scratched the surface of so much on so many levels.

It all started with my dad saying "did you see the CNN news that the church admitted joseph smith had like 32 wives?"
I looked it up and it was true and the church isn't.