Hello everybody! I successfully returned from Utah (back home to the midwest) with my family from a (surprisingly) fun vacation to my in-laws for a wedding. Here is my report:

1) The Mormon church has lost the fight against gay marriage. While I was on my trip, the Supreme Court got it right with their decision. My TBM father in law, came out to the front room (full of people) and announced it as if it was disgusting...and about half of us cheered! He left immediately to sulk alone.

While talking to several dozen people, I saw that everybody (TBM or not) under the age of 50'sh was in favor of allowing marriage equality. The few people (all older) who were opposed had no concrete reason why....I would ask, "what difference does their marriage make to you?" No response beyond hemming and hawing. So, the few hanging on to their bigotry didn't seem to have valid arguments other than the worn-out church-based ones. Those people are becoming fewer in number!

So: my take away, the harder the Mormon church pushes their discrimination, the more membership they will lose...especially in the younger generations. (and I don't see the church relaxing their opinions anytime soon, so this doesn't end well for them).

2) I spoke to a relative who is a contractor/builder/renovator. He talked about how stretched to the max people in Utah are...trying to keep up with neighbors. He talked to me for over 30 minutes about examples of this. From working inside their houses to trying to get payments once the work was done....that is an ongoing chore for him.

I saw a lot of homes listed with things like, 'motivated seller!' Nothing wrong with that. But many of these homes also had really new boats, ATV's, etc. I often wondered if the motivation to sell wasn't from their overspending on toys.

Well, a sister in law is also in this boat. Brand new home, student loans to the max (she's a SAHM), brand new SUV, and less than $200 in savings....but talking about baby number 4. Um...wha???? Her husband's job is insecure at best....they can't afford to put the lawn into the new home and are getting threatening letters from the city to do so or face $800 fines.

I share this because on the outside, I see a lot of beautiful people and beautiful homes in Utah. But, from relatives and my own inside looks at their personal lives, I believe for many, it's a facade that could crumble down quickly. I realize it's not just a Mormon issue, but I wonder if there isn't a connection....God blesses the righteous, righto? Must have the newest car/boat/home to look good and show the blessings of heaven.

glad to be home. I meant to try and find a RFM exmo meeting but plans changed on Sunday and I didn't make it to one...so, hopefully next time I can meet some of you.

sorry, me again! three more things I noticed:

1) my tbm in-laws discussed church a total of less than 5 times. This was over a period of a week. Past visits: all they could discuss was 'the church'. Now: next to nothing!!!! I could not believe the massive shift in conversation, it was refreshing and unexpected.

2) while at the SL temple for the wedding, there was a 'suspicious package' that prompted security to clear the area. This is my experience with church security: overweight, overbearing, annoying men.

3) my children were crushed they couldn't attend the wedding! we had to sit outside the salt lake temple....my boys didn't realize they weren't really going to the wedding when they were told we were going to Utah to see auntie's wedding. When I explained that the Mormon church doesn't let everybody in, unlike the cathedrals in Europe, several TBM's standing around us gave me the stink eye, but nobody could correct me.

Anyway, it was sad to see my kids crying at a wedding they couldn't attend (me, I was happy to not be in the temple but sad for the boys sadness).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2015 10:27AM by hopefulhusband.

Ha, I was at the temple the same time you were, waiting for my son and his bride to come out. I missed his wedding. I thought It would be easier now that it is over but now I'm wishing I would have taken my son up on his offer to not invite any of his aunts and uncles to the sealing. If his parents weren't able to be there, then why would our siblings get to?

I thought we better not do that, but now I wish we would have. The whole thing was so painful. When one brother-in-law made the comment that if we wanted to be there we would have, I wanted to either kick him out of my house or just flat out punch him in the face! I didn't say anything or do anything.

As far as the security guys at the temple, I would have to agree, they came across as very rude and frankly just silly and stupid.

Enjoyed your report. I have noticed pockets of the Mormon version of "Keeping Up with the Kardashians" that you allude to. Where my family lives, there is not too much of that though,m and I am so glad for them. The old farming communities are still often kinder and gentler I have found and not so caught up in the bionic Mormon attitude of spiritual one-upmanship. Boy did I see that at BYU!

I know it was an unkind lesson for your children--the exclusionary wedding--but a lesson is still a lesson and I hope it will be growing up experience for them. They will appreciate more than ever now when your whole family is together at their weddings. Lucky kids.

I hope they had a chance to go to a fun park later to make up for it.

Mormons expect too much when they ask relatives to travel and pay dearly for a day of sitting outside the temple in disgrace during a family wedding.

I have a bunch of (used to be) Hardcore TBM Utah relatives who mostly don't make a peep about the church. They don't even try anymore, just go to church on Sunday (sadly, probably paying some tithing) and that's it. Unfortunately my Dad isn't one of them.

My BYU bride, who remains TBM, sponsored a family reunion last week in Utah County. She and I have three kids and 11 grandchildren. Only one of our off-spring is TBM, and the TBM daughter has four of our grandkids. Only that TBM daughter and one of her sons have my lamanite outer appearance. All the other kids and grandkids are 'passing'... Only the four TBM grandkids attend church.

The oldest supposed TBM grandkid is the one who spent a couple of days at the MTC in February, came home and is supposed to be heading back this Fall. (Yay! Sexy-sexy fooling around with his G/F!) We'll see if he does go back... In the FB photos he's in, he looks pretty darn happy where he is. The lamanite-looking TBM grandson is a born hell raiser. Hard to figure him falling for two years of losing time.

The youth are the church's Achilles heel. And it's going to get worse for them.

You might be down to three TBM grandkids very soon! =) The others might hit the exit as they read a bit more...

I've witnessed the younger generation of TBMs expect what their parents have, the houses, cars, lifestyle... That took advanced degrees and 20 years to achieve. Their parents co-signed for homes and cars their children were in no position to afford... It is a strange phenomenon, like proving righteousness=things, without the education, sacrifice, or consequences for irrational expenditures, children they can't possibly afford...

HH, your sons had a front row seat to Mormon discrimination. They should have carried rings, or would have been ushers... in the normal world that values extended family. When they are older, they will look up the "ceremony" online and wonder why their relatives wore shower caps and promised money and children to a corporation. Good for you for exposing them to that crap, which is what it actually is, divisive crap.

For all the TSCC's happy-happy-happy infomercials, Utah is a Potemkin Village.

My relatives wanted us to go to California one February for a temple wedding. NO WAY was I going to pack up everyone, and take the kids out of school, and miss three days' salary. My TBM parents offered to pay all of our air fare, to shorten the time off, and put us up at their house. I replied that the children and I were not allowed to see the actual wedding, so what was the point? We decided to visit during summer vacation, when everyone wasn't so busy. My elderly parents were paying for the wedding, the honeymoon, doing the flowers, and most of the food. Having house guests would have been a burden. My TBM family was always obsessed with putting on the facade of being a perfect Mormon family, and they wanted me and the kids to pretend to be at the wedding. Stupid. I told them they could photoshop out the Christmas tree in our Xmas photo, and paste us in front of the temple, for the wedding album. I did order the bride and groom a great gas barbecue.

A phony photo-shop photo, for a phony religion about phony family unity, how perfect is that? =)

Since Mormonism teaches that God will prosper the righteous, it become very important to seem prosperous so that others won't think you're not righteous enough.