I have chronic pain issues that sometimes require the use of prescribed narcotic painkillers. Occasionally, I can go for several days without having to use them (and always feel excited about this victory, however fleeting) - but sooner or later, pain wins out.

Here's my question: the stuff I take (Vicodin) takes about two hours to kick in and relieve the pain. Even when it kicks in, I never feel "buzzed." I feel totally clear-headed. Is it safe to drive for short errands when you have painkillers in your system?

In the past, I've taken painkillers that not only relieve the pain, they make you feel like you live in an alternate universe. Obviously, not conducive to driving. But the Vicodin doesn't do that. It just takes the pain away.

I'm reluctant to drive when I have taken the stuff, but there have been times when I had to run a brief errand, and didn't have a problem. What's the legal stance on this? Anybody know?

At least you know that if you do go out to run errands, you won't have to rush to find a bathroom to take a dump.

I lost my reference, but there have been studies done on this topic. The results showed that people in pain actually did better driving when their pain was under control with opiate pain killers. People who are in pain and are getting the correct dose don't get high. That's a huge misconception that people have.

Americans know very little about opiate pain control. They usually peg the person as an addict and then gossip about them. Most of the time they're way off the mark. Less than 1% of people who're prescribed pain meds get addicted. Even fewer than that ever get high.

Don't tell people you take pain meds. It's not good for your image in this country. The other thing is, they gossip, and you never know who knows what meds you take. This can be a danger to you.

There are people out there who don't have a problem stealing your meds. This has happened to people I know. Keep your meds in a safe place in your house that others wouldn't think of.

I don't know many details but a friend's kid got a DUI for having a pain patch. I don't think his he was driving mattered that much after they found out he had a pain patch on him.

That said, I've had close friends drive very well on Vicodin, but I think it really depends on how you handle it - it sounds like you handle it just fine though.

I got adicted to an opiate painkiller, codeine.

Getting off them was HELL.

Why did I feel it necessary to get off them?

Because a cousin of mine died of codeine poisoning.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2015 02:27AM by matt.

Chronic pain should be treated by a specialty group in your HMO. They don't advertise it or maybe they would get too many looky loos... An anesthesiologist runs it. They set up a plan for you which may include steroid injections in joints or the spine, with x-rays while the anesthesiologist does the injections.

If your pain is localized, you can obtain an RX by a compounding pharmacy. It is a topical lotion pump. You may need to try a combination of treatments, biofeedback, physical therapy, trying different medicines...

I've taken a high dose of morphine 3 times a day for years, no problem driving. You can have spinal injections up to 4 times a year-very effective for many people. Mine helps a few months. It is a fallacy that everyone gets addicted from opiates, but you should be cautious/ramp down slowly under supervision...

Talk with your pain management team. Good luck to you. Pain can be debilitating, as you know. Unless you've lived with it, you don't know how challenging/discouraging it can be. Try a compounding cream, it helps.

that can work wonders. I have been able to get by on this topical stuff for several days at a time. But sometimes, it just isn't enough, and that's when I have to bring in the heavy artillery.

They have tried spinal injections. One helped for about three days. The other didn't do jack.

This pain isn't going to go away. It's a degenerative condition. So I want to be as conservative in drug use as I can be, so the doctors won't ever leave me high and dry, without pain relief. I've seen it happen to others. Bad news. I just think it sucks that pain relief is dependent on somebody else's judgment at that moment.

When the pain med is controlling the pain (the dosage is just right to kill the pain), then you will not feel it in other ways.
The choice for me ended up being in pain or taking opiates. I choose opiates.

I have a theory (which which my doctor agrees) that, if you're actually in pain, painkillers don't get you "high." They just relieve the pain.

Things I wish I knew....1) Vicodin has acetominophen (Tylenol) in it...quite a large amount, actually...and acetominophin over use is the number one cause of liver failure in the country. I was on Darvocet, then Vicodin for years, and I have now have non-alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver. Took me a while to find an opiate that DOESN'T have acetominophen in it (or NSAIDS...since my liver went belly up, I can't have anything that thins my blood).

Studies have proven that Hydrocodone (the opiate part of Vicodin) is easy on the liver, whilst the acetominophen isn't. If your doctor doesn't believe you, lead him to the July 2005 copy of the JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association) for the studies that proved this. Remember, too, that your doctor is regularly wooed by pharmceutical companies, who do not have YOUR best interest at heart.

Be careful and know that, should you get in an accident whilst taking Vicodin, even if you're sober as a judge, if they test your blood you WILL be found at cause of the accident and, probably, be charged with a DUI.

Be careful! Good luck with finding pain relief...pain sucks!

I strongly suspect that the label on the bottle of Vicodin says not to drive while taking the medication.

Be careful. If you get into an accident, even if the narcotic is not the cause, it will be a serious problem for you.

Also, I would try to find other sources of pain control (along the lines of Neurontin, baclofen, and NSAIDs).

Opiates are an uphill fight and pretty soon you need the Vicodin just to control the pain of not having the Vicodin.

I don't think there is any errand that is urgent enough to risk getting charged with DUI or DWI. That could be a very inconvenient, expensive battle for you to fight. You might want to group your errands for days that you are feeling better.

There is no answer to this question that will fit for any given situation or for every person. How people react to opioids/opiates depends on their bodyweight, age, prior tolerance, interactions with other medications, and even things people might consider trivial I don't even know (i.e. eating grapefruit and drinking grapefruit potentiates medications like benzodiazepines, making the effects faster onset, and if someone is sensitive, potentially dangerous).

If your pain issues are chronic but only require occasonial (based on what you wrote, not even daily) narcotic use, you usually won't develop tolerance, and like someone else said, if you are responsible with usage and have been prescribed the correct dose, you won't experience the 'high' that people describe when abusing opioids and opiates. Hydrocodone is a moderate to highly powerful opioid, it just depends on the dosage. If your usage is infrequent and you haven't had problems driving with it before, I don't see why it would be a problem. I have heard of people getting D.W.I. for impaired driving for things other than alcohol, but for people responsibly taking prescribed medications, I think this is less frequent. In England, they make you renew your license every few months and go through other hoops if you're on Methadone Maintenance Therapy.

Someone mentioned the problem with hydrocodone and liver problems. Actually, more people die in the United States from liver problems with opioids with acetaminophen than from overdoses- they take tons of the stuff, and because it has so much acetaminophen in it, (which they are either oblivious to or just don't care due to their addiction) it can cause liver failure. There are a couple of solutions to this. In response to this problem, there is now a medication that is hydrocodone only called Zohydro, that I believe comes in formulations from 10 mg to 50 mg. Also, Codeine, Oxycodone, and Hydrocodone all have formulations with lesser amounts of Acetaminophen- for example, you can get pills that have 5 mg hydrocodone/ 325 mg acetaminophen, but there are also some pills that might have 600 mg's of acetaminophen and or more. You just need to talk to your doctor.

Anyways, it sounds like your pretty responsible with your narcotic use, and if you're not getting high or feeling high, and only take it a couple times a week anyway, I wouldn't worry about things like driving. When people start having to take things like Oxycodone, Dilaudid, Miperidine, MsContin, or Fentanyl, then it's time to worry. those are typically the medications associated with extreme intoxication and producing the most potent highs, and worse addiction.

As a recovering heroin addict, and someone who is currently in the process of weaning off methadone, I can tell you that after a while, nothing you take is enough if you keep taking enough of it, both in terms of the actual amount, and what you want it to do to your body. So you can really never be too careful, even with something like hydrocodone, which can become addicting, and is one of the most commonly prescribed- and abused- medications in the U.S.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2015 11:53AM by midwestanon.

There are tons of medications that say shit like that, including non psychoactive or psychotropic medications, especially antidepressants, blood pressure medications, beta-blockers, etc. It's for liability, and because those medications probably can make it unsafe for a person to operate a vehicle or heavy machinery in one case out of 10,000. Side effects for medications typically fall into the 1 percentile range or less, unless it's some outrageously dangerous medication like a chemotherapy drug or something to treat african sleeping sickness: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melarsoprol

The article called it 'arensic in antifreeze'. anyway, you get the point.

and they gave me 300 mg.

I hadn't really thought of that as a problem, because basic Tylenol has never worked for me, but I have other systemic problems that don't do well with too much acetaminophen.

I don't want to belabor my point from earlier, but this article is one of the things I was referring to. Chronic opiates make people feel more pain from noxious stimuli, make non-noxious stimuli seem painful, cause depression, seeking behavior, deconditioning, personality changes. In essence, life itself becomes too painful without the drug.

I have seen too many patient's lives changed dramatically for the worse from them. They are safe for acute pain use for a few days, but in long duration they are insidious. People who manage chronic pain with opiates become different people.

I know that some people absolutely need them, but there are safer and more effective methods of managing pain over the long term in many, many cases.

It seems to me that if I've needed a pain med, the directions say to see how it makes the patient feel and don't operate machinery or vehicles if safety is questionable.

Does the insert with this medicine say that? Or does it say to never drive after taking it?

It's always good to be on the safe side, but if you can drive safely, I'd hate to have you sit at home without good reason.

You can be charged with a DUI/DWI. In Durango some years ago, a city councilman was pulled over and charged because he took some Ambien while driving. You can even be charged under the influence of some antihistamines.

Be careful. It's probably not worth it to test the limits, but it's your driving record.

Madalice has some good advice. Gutter trash have no problem snooping through your stuff and stealing pain pills. Keep them with you at all times or put marbles in your medicine chest when you have guests over.

ETA: BF shattered his heel a little over a month ago and the doc prescribed him opiate painkillers and 800 Ibuprofen. It might be worth looking into taking the latter for when you have to drive a vehicle. I live with chronic pain, too, and it's a bitch. Right now the 800s help with the pain, but I'm dreading the day I either have to have surgery or get on the pill merry-go-round.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2015 02:29PM by Itzpapalotl.

Anyone who takes Ambien and then drives, is an idiot.

I think all drugs affect people differently. I've had vicodin before, after serious injuries and a surgery. I have to take it about 20 minutes before I'm going to bed because pretty much all painkillers knock me right out. I don't get "high," I just get sleepy. That is not conducive to driving and I wouldn't dare drive on Vicodin.

Your body and the drug's effects on you, may be completely different. You could risk a DUI if the drug effects your reflexes to the point of making you drive dangerously. If it just takes away the pain, but doesn't make you sleepy or impaired in some way, then why would any cop have reason to pull you over?

The problem is that someone else may run into you, or pull out in front of you. And if that other person is drug free, and you are not drug free --- you can be held responsible. It doesn't matter how well and carefully you were driving. Or how poorly the other person was driving. If you test positive for opiates, there is an unfortunately good chance that the investigators will stop looking at anything else. They will only see you as "under the influence."

No matter how well you are able to drive, you can't control what other drivers will do.

I have experienced lower back pain for years after a series of events, the doctors tried everything, steroid injections and even some light surgeries.

However it never fixed the problem, so they would just write out Vicodins like candy..

The plain fact is that if you consume 2 or more per day then you are an addict! It doesn't matter if you receive no "high" your body still has an addiction!

In the DFW area the DEA shut down a number of doctors giving the candy out, alternatives were needed as the true pain patients suddenly were being given over the counter meds!

I stopped taking them in 2014 and have been using a herbal product called (Kratom) which is based of a plant.

It fixes my pain, my liver is now safe and I can even pass drug tests (needed for my job).

I'm a true fan of this plant and even plan to grow some myself soon, its a non opiate but does have alkaloids.

You can also buy it pretty much anywhere (seedy smoke shops)..

How much do you take/ how often? Pill or powder... ? Thanks

I have chronic non cancer pain from an airplane crash and subsequent spinal cord issues. I take a combination of NORCO and a new drug Zoehydro. I disagree with the addict definition. In my world, pain pills make the difference between getting through the day or not. I manage my pain through a pain clinic, and also a shrink that specializes in addiction issues.

Wish my insurance would pay for zohydro. But I agree, no quality of life with chronic pain. So using opiates makes it manageable. I drive only if I have to. Have DH take me otherwise. I feel okay but understand what the laws can do to someone.

I really do NOT agree that taking more than 2 pain pills a day is an addiction! Even if the body isn't getting a high.

Just because the body isn't 'high' and just because the pain goes away, doesn't mean that the causation of the pain has been treated. The body isn't addicted if the pain comes back when the injury or damage isn't repaired. The emotional well being of an individual may depend on pain control, and if the initial injury isn't being properly treated, there may well be a need for more than just OTC pain medications over a longer period of time. But, always use the prescribed stuff under the supervision of a doctor and for as short a time as possible. (BTW, I don't use hydrocodone, it does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for me!)

I'm gonna have to look at Kratom. I've never heard of it before, so I've got some learning to do, and I'll be talking to my pharm. student kid and see what she can tell me too.

ITMT, I also suggest Arnica. It doesn't do much for me for arthritis pain (it was suggested for arthritis), but it can help me with my tension head aches, just so they do not turn into the life stopping migraines I sometimes get. Licorice root is also a pretty good pain reliever, FYI. My dad used to make a cup of tea with it, and drink that when he was having a bad pain day.

One more thing -- I think that drivers need to be really cautious about driving after having imbibed various substances. I definitely know the "I feel fine" feeling -- I've felt it myself. But I also know that there have been times when I've felt perfectly fine and yet my reaction times are definitely off.

So I would argue for caution. If you go by how you are feeling you may be in error.

As far as drinking, I generally have no hesitation about driving after having one glass of beer or wine because I know that I would likely pass a Breathalyzer or blood alcohol test if I am pulled over. If I have 2-3 glasses it gets dicier, and I have to evaluate how much time has elapsed, how much I've had to eat, etc.

Yes, I do evaluate how I'm feeling, but that is not always the most reliable indicator.

Two is certainly enough to be an addict! (depending on strength for sure)...

I know many people who chew 5 day and still think they are holier than all!

As for me with Kratom, Capsules at the moment (I switch around) - Wake up, lunch, dinner and bed (stops the RLS)

the powder works good but a little harder to calculate dosage! teaspoon or two in some water (i use a sports water bottle) shake up.. drink!

Kratom, although I don't think technically an opiate or opioid, works on the mu-opioid receptor like every other extract of the opium plant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa

Kratom can be addictive and can cause withdrawal, and frankly I think you're deluding yourself if you think it can't cause you problems. I know people who have used Kratom to get high and use it as a substitute for unavailable narcotics.

If it's working for you, great, it's probably less dangerous than the more potent narcotics (although I doubt hydrocodone), but it is also not a prescribed medication, and not as well studied or understood as other opioids and opiates.

I never said it "cant cause problems" high addicts can get high of most store products (Nutmeg etc etc)

I'm just saying that as an alternative Kratom is safer than codine products!

Hey also..

The first step is to acknowledge your addiction, so as you chew down your 3rd pill for the day maybe sit back and have a think!

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/teaching-packets/neurobiology-drug-addiction/section-iii-action-heroin-morphine/10-addiction-vs-dependence

"As you have just explained, different parts of the brain are responsible for the addiction and dependence to heroin and opiates. Review the areas in the brain underlying the addiction to morphine (reward pathway) and those underlying the dependence to morphine (thalamus and brainstem). Thus, it is possible to be dependent on morphine, without being addicted to morphine. (Although, if one is addicted, they are most likely dependent as well.) This is especially true for people being treated chronically with morphine, for example, pain associated with terminal cancer. They may be dependent - if the drug is stopped, they suffer a withdrawal syndrome. But, they are not compulsive users of the morphine, and they are not addicted. Finally, people treated with morphine in the hospital for pain control after surgery are unlikely to become addicted; although they may feel some of the euphoria, the analgesic and sedating effects predominate. There is no compulsive use and the prescribed use is short-lived."

I've used Vicodin daily for years, and drive myself around all the time. We have the dose dialed at precisely the level required to relieve the pain and not produce a high.

Opiates can produce "highs" or "euphoria," but in my experience I've found that actual bonafide spine crushing PAIN is a pretty good anti-serum for those sorts of effects. If you're not high, you're not high. I wouldn't take a long road trip on the stuff, but if you're talking about running to the grocery store and you can think clearly, think critically, and respond quickly you're probably fine.

For those of us questioning Kratom:

Site #1) http://www.sagewisdom.org/kratomguide.html

#2) https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Kratom

#3) http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/should-kratom-be-legal/

#4) http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/12/04/kratom-latest-legal-plant-based-high/

#5) http://americankratomassociation.org/ (interesting links on the side of the front page... Seems Kratom may not be legal in all states!)

#6) http://www.kratomeffects.com/


I've got a LOT of reading to do, and this is only just a start on my searches.