Godzilla asks, "What is the matter with Mormon women?"
The simple answer is that LDS doctrine and cultural expectations allow a woman that wants to retreat into an LDS bubble every opportunity to do so. She can live a very secure life with no "worldly pressures." Her home can be totally LDS without any debates that occur when confronted by "evil influences of the world."
The only men who have this LDS bubble are employed by the Church or self-employed. The contrast between men in a professional LDS bubble and other priesthood holders can be quite stark. I worked at a university for many years. I had a home teacher who sold life insurance to other members for a living. He ask me if I led my co-workers in prayer? Never, I replied. He persisted because "I should have the Spirit in my workplace." He had no idea how impractical his suggestion would be in almost any workplace where nobody else was LDS.
Anyhow, that is my opinion based on my observations of Primary and Relief Society presidents and CES officials who could devote their entire lives to their Church callings. They are proud that they can completely shut the world out of their lives.
I think the truth is that there is no "simple answer." Personally I haven't experienced this. Most of the women I knew when I was TBM were much more likely to bend the rules, question, and investigate the church than the men I knew. The men I knew were mostly very rigid and strict about the rules, very linear in their thinking. I'm sure depending on cultural setting, demographics of the local population, and individual experiences, people have experienced the opposite. Women as a whole are disempowered by the church much more than men are, at least externally. That's not really arguable as they are explicitly told they are not priesthood holders and must obey their husbands, and need them to get into heaven as a polygamist wife. There are many other factors that affect men and women differently in the church, but I see that less as "women are more rigid TBMs" and more as "men and women have different expectations in the church." Remember, while Mormon men are told never to masturbate, women aren't even assumed to HAVE sex drives at all, so there's no need to chasten them because in the eyes of the church, they are essentially children. They aren't reprimanded as often in talks because they are already assumed to simply be subservient and to have no individual thoughts or desires. Arguing about who has it worse in such circumstances is pretty pointless.
My experience: both genders within the Mormon church suffer.
Both do better outside of the church.
While I can clearly picture many women using sing-song, child voices while speaking as adults, I can also remember just as many men mis-using their priesthood or acting pompously because he stood in the place of Christ.
What is wrong with Mormon women? The same thing as with Mormon men: the Mormon church.
Yes, and both were trained to do so to perform their appropriate gender roles within the church. Sure, the church might give women a false sense of security, as the OP suggests, to keep them there. But the church perhaps even more so gives men a false sense of entitlement to power and control to keep them in line as well. Both suffer because both are fed illusions.
When women are denied education, receive limited education, told to sacrifice education for their husband/children, and those with degrees are pressured to stay home, they live in a varied states of oppression.
They are taught the world is evil, and that their role is one dimensional: sacrificing for everyone else... No wonder why they have a death grip on their husbands and consider the confines of their church bubble a safe zone. They are instilled with fear and limitations. It is crazy-making and creates depression.
Educated, independent women who question the brethren/status quo are the brethren's worst nightmare. They need clingy women who police each other, and their husbands. Notice how there are constant messages of fear from SLC; be vigilant, guard your family, protect your children, beware of "counterfeit families" on and on... No wonder so many are manic, depressed, angry, controlling... It is tragic.
First of all, "Mormon Women" are not a monolithic block. The majority of Mormons have actually dumped Mormonism. A majority of Mormon women have done the same.
Second, young single Mormon women are not making the transition into RS. They hate it, and are dropping out. This is a huge group, and is not even being considered in these "what's the matter with Mormon women" threads. There's not a thing wrong with most single Mormon millenials.
Third, even among active married middle-aged Mormon SAH mothers, there are more than a few of those posting on RFM. Yesterday afternoon (July 12) there were THREE separate threads started by women whose husbands were still TBM. I was going to get the URLs and put them in a post, but I ran out of time and didn't have enough interest. Today seeing yet another thread, I'll do the post, but don't have time to find the threads. They are a very common occurrence here.
Yes, there are women who meet the stereotype presented in the "what's wrong with Mormon women" threads. As a percentage of all Mormon women (remember, over half are inactive), they are not that big a group. And even in that particular group, there are plenty who left or doubted before their spouse. RFM has a load of them.
So, I'm not buying the premise. There's nothing wrong with Mormon women. This presupposes that the Mormon men are braver and smarter, and I'm sorry, that's bullshit. Some are. Some aren't.
Sorry for the tone. I'm in a hurry, no time to edit. Off to see the Amy Winehouse documentary at 2. There was something the matter with her, but damn, what a talent.
Sorry to offend, but the LDS lifestyle allows these women to coast in their lives. They never have to deal with the reality of the world. They never have to learn how to be "in the world, but not of the world."
The concept has its appeal, but not among those who value self-determination. It is the classic trade: security for freedom.
K, and the church also gives them no other options and tells them that's all they are good for.
And Mormon men trade dignity and integrity for a false sense of power. The church allows them to think they are far more important and powerful than they are and to have a false sense of entitlement and authority over others, other men and all women.
For these LDS women this is not a forced choice, but a calculated decision on their part. My ex-wife expects to be "supported." She does not expect to have to compete economically.
She does not want to deal with the demands of employment. With employment she *might* have to hear someone use the Lord's name in vain. She had not heard the Lord's name in vain and complained to the management, but she *might* hear the Lord's name in vain. And a host of other grievous sins that *might* happen to her if she ventures outside her LDS bubble.
She is competitive, but within her LDS bubble. She would rehearse lessons for her calling for hours because she is competing with all the other LDS sisters to have the best lesson, an immaculate house and family - anything that demonstrates that she has a testimony.
These women know what they are doing. They are making conscious choices to be "supported." In past eras most women had that option to be "supported." Now only cultural relics such as the LDS Church provide that lifestyle. These sisters enjoy being "supported."
In our modern society the great "supporter" has been transferred from "husbands" to the government.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2015 09:35PM by idleswell.
I think this is based on your personal experiences and not Mormon women in general. My ex fiance was the ultimate Peter Priesthood, controlling, obsessed with his own "spiritual" power, and wanting to be obeyed. Rigid in his thinking and behavior and highly judgmental. I don't think most Mormon men are like that because of him, but I do think that the oddities of Moism bring out those qualities more in both men and women who already have those tendencies. Outside of Mormonism it's not like he would have been a tolerant, open minded sweetheart. Other than that you're basically just offering up a generalization.
And actually, I wanted to work and he said he wouldn't allow it. We fought tooth and nail over it and it's ultimately what made me leave him. So I could give you just as many examples of the opposite. Moism brings out the worst in everyone, but again, it's not like it actually forces people to suck. If they suck, they probably would have without the religion too.
Even within the mormon church there are many different kinds of women with varied life experiences. I see truth in several of the posts, maybe because they do contradict each other.
the mormon women who fascinated me the most were those wives who ran their families. When a question was presented regarding what the family was to do, or not do, everyone, including Peter Priesthood, turned to her.
Naturally, they would never assert that they had held the power. But they did...
That bubble is very damaging to many women and to their families. During a lifetime in the mission field I have seen many Mormon women that were not able to function outside of church and the home. A number of divorces were partially caused by this problem. Families moving from the Morridor resulted in culture shock that the TBM wives were not able to cope with. Their husbands were not able to find comparable work back in the bubble of the Jello Belt so the women basically went running and screaming back to Utah without their husbands.
Not the women's fault but Mormon culture is crippling to many of the fairer sex. It creates women who are not capable of functioning in the face of the realities of life. It can happen to men too. We recently had a recent BYU grad move into our ward. He earned all of his degrees from BYU and he was from deep within the Morridor. Even with a Ph.D. his head almost exploded when he encountered the real world. Surrounded by nevermos and in a stake that has a lot of hardcore inactives and frequent disaffections shook his worldview.
Just checking back in to see if any posters were seeing the same problem I see in these threads that bemoan the fact that women are so much less willing to dump Mormoism than men are, and what's wrong with these women. This crops up on a fairly regular basis here, and the premise simply isn't true. There are plenty of women willing to dump Mormonism, and plenty of men who are not willing.
But there are rarely threads here about what's wrong with the men who won't leave when the wife does. Women who stay are portrayed as weak and fearful, and men who stay are portrayed as power hungry, or afraid of their mother (a woman's fault again that the man won't leave), or too much inertia is simply a believer, but they are rarely portrayed as weak, the one exception being the fear of mother thing.
If your partner is terrified of leaving Mormonism, then you are in a tough spot, regardless of gender. Also, regardless of gender, they are the exception, not the rule. A majority of members of both sexes have dumped Mormonism. That may be cold comfort if your partner is terrified to leave, but there it is.
It seems to me single women may delay leaving a few years over their male counterparts. In older age categories there are more women than men because women simply outlive the men. But in the 30 to 50 age bracket, I never noticed an appreciable difference in the number of men and women in my wards. If there were more women, it wasn't a large surplus.
Anyway, that's my pet peeve for the day. Anonforthisexmorm clearly got my point, and some of the other posters probably did.
BTW, the Amy Winehouse biopic was excellent, though tragic. The audience cheered at the end of the showing of the Brian Wilson biopic when I saw it a few weeks ago. No cheers for Amy. There were no winners, though there were a few decent folks.
I could never be a good LDS woman. I like tank tops, short shorts in the summer, have a small tattoo of a Jesus fish on my shoulder, and sometimes say the "F" word. Oh, and I love Tupac.
I was only LDS for a few years, after being pressured into getting baptized by my (now ex) husband. I was never "temple worthy" and had no desire to become so. Now I'm resigned and back to being a non-denominational Christian.