The missionaries in Scotland were recently visited by Elder Holland and boy did he give them a terrifying speech.


The control levels are high.Being a Nevermormon I cannot imagine most 19 year olds giving in to this kind of pressure.
Most 19 year olds I can think of are preoccupied with dating,friends,exams,going out at night...


Here is a few lines from what he apparently said from a missionary blog:
http://eldermikebates.blogspot.ie/


'Can you imagine an organization or a government that puts their future in the hands of 18-21 year old young men and women? We expect you to save this church!'

'You are engaged in the salvation of a human soul. It is the most important thing you could ever do'.

'Don't you dare leave this gospel after your mission! If you do, I'll hunt ya, I'll find ya!'

'Have you ever tried to write such a book as the Book of Mormon? If Joseph Smith did not translate the Book of Mormon, then I would move heaven & earth to find the man who did! Someone who claims to have written the Book of Mormon is a far more impressive miracle than the young boy translating is. As I lay on my death bed, the last thing I will declare to the earth is that "This is God's truth."


To the missionary's he said, "Whatever the miracles of the past have been, they are nothing to what we will see in the future. The work has only begun in these islands!" This generation will live to see the manifestation of the scripture quoted by Moroni to the Prophet Joseph Smith 4 times from Joel 2. It has scarcely been realized. We've only seen the beginning'.

Wow, Holland sounds really excited but disturbed. Undoubtedly lots of shaking going on...

I think that if the apostles really let the 18-year-olds save the church, they'd probably get kicked out of their corner offices and their million-dollar homes. All they seem capable of doing at this point is hiding behind the missionaries while pretending they're perfect.

Another quote from the blog:

"Elder Holland gave loving, yet aggressive spiritual instructions. He didn't stand at the pulpit, but he walked around the chapel, yelling, making jokes, and staring the missionary's down in the eye - all in the most Christlike way possible!" [This summary seems to have been written by the missionary's mother]

Plaid n Paisley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another quote from the blog:
>
> "Elder Holland gave loving, yet aggressive
> spiritual instructions. He didn't stand at the
> pulpit, but he walked around the chapel, yelling,
> making jokes, and staring the missionary's down in
> the eye - all in the most Christlike way
> possible!"


All in the most Christ-like way possible???? Isn't this so silly!!

From the Elder's blog, quoting Holland: "Don't you dare leave this gospel after your mission! If you do, I'll hunt ya, I'll find ya!"

That quote reminds me of the scare tactics Lucifer uses in the Temple Endowment, "I have a word to say concerning these people. If they do not walk up to every covenant they make at these altars in this temple this day, they will be in my power!"

Both quotes are the exact opposite of Christ's teachings -- love.

For Holland to use this kind of language really reveals that the elite 15 know how bad the stats are; that many missionaries are leaving TSCC after their missions; and many are learning the truth about the big hoax. No amount of Holland rants can change the inevitable circling down the sewer.

------

From the Elder's blog: "He [Holland] didn't stand at the pulpit, but he walked around the chapel, yelling, making jokes, and staring the missionary's down in the eye. . ."

Note what first caught this Elder's attention, the word 'yelling.' When things are going great for TSCC, there is no need to yell. Why? Because you are content and happy with the results. Yelling spells just the opposite of the calm that should be happening in real time. I suspect Holland knows there will be little left to rule as the CEO, Profit of TSCC if the trend continues on the downhill. He's left to 'yelling' to try and impress the missionaries that the burden is all on their backs to save TSCC.

------

From the Elder's blog: "Can you imagine an organization or a government that puts their future in the hands of 18-21 year old young men and women? We expect you to save this church!"

Well it is TSCC that uses the mission to indoctrinate the individual into staying active post mission. And yes, TSCC is putting their future in those 18-21 year olds, because they know that those few months are the most concentrated brainwashing time of these youngsters' lives.

Expecting the missionaries to save TSCC? It's not about getting baptisms and converts. Rather, it's about keeping enough RMs to marry and produce more Morgbots, i.e. tithe payers.

Like they didn't already have enough guilt on their plate? Now, it's THEIR job to save the church?!? Elder Holland, they MIGHT have a fighting chance if you and your cohorts would stop sprewing hate and passing fairy tales off as actual fact.
Adam and Eve were only a metaphor to Bronze Age sheep herders.
I could go on, but I'll leave that to someone else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2015 07:10PM by lapsed.

Well if that doesn't reek of desperation, I don't know what does!

I also found the "Don't you dare leave this gospel after your mission! If you do, I'll hunt ya, I'll find ya!" comment very intriguing.


If things are going oh so well,then why the need to threaten the missionaries in this fashion?

Nevermo1. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 'Have you ever tried to write such a book as the Book of Mormon? If Joseph Smith did not translate the Book of Mormon, then I would move heaven & earth to find the man who did! Someone who claims to have written the Book of Mormon is a far more impressive miracle than the young boy translating is.

The church needs to get noted scholar Richard Bushman on the same page. He recently did an AMA (Q & A) elsewhere on the web, in which he stated that certain turns of phrase from the BoM, specifically Alma, were lifted wholesale from previously published 19th century sermons.

Joseph Smith, copying from the best.

Holly s__t. When I was a missionary the party line was the BM was the most perfect book ever written and contained the sacred dealings of Christ to the people of the Americas and was the glorious fulfillment of the stick of joseph and stick of judah prophecy.
Now it has become a trial of faith!

The General Authorities have gone down the rabbit hole … it won't take 19 year old kids long to figure out the whole thing is a fraud if Holland keeps this up.

It seems almost everything I was taught to present to investigators has been shown to be absolutely bogus…

Ancient America Speaks … New World Baptismal Fonts…. The Great Apostacy …etc etc etc.


Funny the same things I was learning in college …. Calculus, physics, chemistry are still true and I use them every day in my work and even better understood…God f__ks up, but not Science.

save it from what, teh gehz ?

Where have I heard this before ?

I served in Japan 2003-2005 and remember a similar visit from Elder Kikuchi. I think he may have been the Area President at the time. In summary, we were all heavily berated about how sinful we were and that it was our fault the mission wasn't seeing success (6 or so baptisms a month for the entire mission, was a good month).

We also constantly got the "this is only the beginning" speel and how it was about to burst with converts. Certainly didn't happen during my time.

It was a big turning point for me. The 'spirit' was definitely not present during the visit and it just felt so wrong that volunteers and young men and women who were paying their way and putting in their best efforts, were treated that way. I was totally appalled. The MP actually ended up apologising to us all after Kikuchi left.

My mission president was a buddy of Kikuchi's and convinced him to come speak to our mission twice in the span of a few months. He gave the exact same spiel both times. My mission president told us how inspired Kikuchi was to deliver the same message twice, as it was what we needed to hear.

This was in 2010.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2015 02:58AM by smoteheadofshiz.

If this quote from Holland somehow went viral, I wonder how many future missionaries it'll turn against the morg!???

"If Joseph Smith did not translate the Book of Mormon, then I would move heaven & earth to find the man who did! Someone who claims to have written the Book of Mormon is a far more impressive miracle than the young boy translating is."

One of the most delusional ideas Church leaders perpetuate is that the Book of Mormon is such a miraculously good literary work, no one could possibly write something similary.

For one thing, much of it is plagiarized from the Bible and contemporary literary works, and for another, it's not that great. The church has also made hundreds of "corrections" to it since it was written (like changing white to pure for the racism issue). But if you say it's wonderful and perfectly written by Joseph Smith enough times, I guess people convince themselves it is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2015 08:50PM by raiku.

Holland: "Our responsibility is to talk with everyone. Everyone."

Really, Mr. Holland? I guess you don't think it's your responsibility to meet with a group you promised to meet with during a press interview, who has bothered to create a website telling you they want to meet?

http://talkwithholland.blogspot.com/2012/03/elder-holland-were-ready.html

You're such a damn coward. You let these poor missionaries take the heat for the strange church you want them to promote, but you won't take any risks of looking like the fool you are after your disaster of a press interview.

What an ass. First of all, Holland wouldn't spend half a second hunting down someone who left the church. That would take caring about individual people, which we all know they don't. They can't even be bothered to answer the sincere questions of TBMs with doubts. Just a way to heap more guilt and fear young kids because he knows that some of them will leave the church.

Nevermo1. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Quoting Holland:

> Someone who claims to have written the Book of Mormon is a
> far more impressive miracle than the young boy translating
> is.

Yep, the "young boy" lie again. This dodo has no shame.

A missionary once said to me, "how could a 14-year old boy
produce the Book of Mormon?" I replied, "14-year old boy?? How
old was Jospeh Smith when he produced the Book of Mormo?" He
hummed and hawed and guessed "nineteen?" I had to point out
that Joseph Smith was 24 and that it was not very impressive
that a full-time missionary was so poorly informed about his own
church.

No matter how much you gild a pile of sh*t, it's still just a pile of sh*t. The fact that anyone with a working brain is recognizing this is causing TSC to hemorrhage members, especially that coveted 18 - 48 year old demographic.

Holland has always been an ass and trying to intimidate 18 - 21 year olds into staying Mormon does not improve it.

"Have you ever tried to write such a book as the Book of Mormon? If Joseph Smith did not translate the Book of Mormon, then I would move heaven & earth to find the man who did!" --Holland

I'd love to see him do that.

I'll bet the do-do can't even move his own trash can.

The first thing I thought of is "Oh my gosh - They admit the church is in peril. That it needs saving." Before this the emphasis was on saving souls because the church was growing like a weed and was a stone rolling forth to fill the whole earth. Now it needs to be saved? From what? Oh, right. Us. LOL.

+1

Holland and Cook, the worst there is.

'Don't you dare leave this gospel after your mission! If you do, I'll hunt ya, I'll find ya!'



Is this the mafia ?

Utter desperation.

There is something seriously wrong with him, like nervous breakdown wrong. He knows the church is built on sand. He is disintegrating, just like the church.

That was a thought I had, too. He is loosing it, more and more, he is loosing it.

You'd think God would do something to help out his church. Maybe he did. He offed Darth Sidious. Maybe he'll work his way through the lying scum.

Holland doesn't expect any missionaries to save the church. It's just a way of making the missionaries feel less futile.

Mormons pretend to hold mishies in high esteem but they treat them worse than animals.

When Holland is dramatic, it keeps the missionaries questioning their questions. 'Surely this apostle knows more than me.See how passionate he is?' Intimidation at its finest.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2015 06:26AM by antilehinephi.

Whatta jackass

My dear friend Jeff,

Please, for your own sake as well as thousands of others, stop the yelling, ranting and use of emotional blackmail. It does not befit a Yale PhD.

What happened to the kind, affable and accomplished man I once knew? How and why did you become a cruel, ranting, lying dodo? Were you always like that and I, in my delusion, missed it?

Or did you find out it was all a scam which caused a volcano to erupt within you? Refusing to follow the path of personal integrity and proclaiming the truth did you decide to choose the path of defending the indefensible truth claims by perpetuating lies. yelling and blackmailing people with emotion?

Jeff, from mortality statistics you are likely to be the President of the 12 (under President Oaks) for a few years, followed by several years as President of the Church. You actually have the power to change the church from a fraudulent organisation to a caring humanitarian organisation. However, it will take personal integrity signs of which, so far, you have failed to show.

However, you can change and be an influence for good. That will also ease your inner battle which must be destroying you or does Prozac help you get through?

Your (genuine) friend,
Tom

P.S. Let me know if I can help you. I mean that.

(I commend you, Tom. That was a very genuinely kind post. I keep forgetting you actually know him.)

Tom,

I agree, Holland could do so much good if he was just honest and came clean on the whole thing. There is a whole generation of women who will drop out of education, get married and pregnant young, have more kids than they can safely (and sometimes healthily) support, and bring those kinds up in a environment that teaches them fictions sold as fact, in a world where science increasingly matters.

Young men who will waste two years on missions and come away with sales skills, but will then struggle through college married young, often having kids, incurring greater debt.

Yes, many families do well, but many others do not, and would not have chosen this path if they were not manipulated and it forced in front of them.

The most telling line from Holland was this (IMO):

"Have you ever tried to write such a book as the Book of Mormon? If Joseph Smith did not translate the Book of Mormon, then I would move heaven & earth to find the man who did! Someone who claims to have written the Book of Mormon is a far more impressive miracle than the young boy translating is. As I lay on my death bed, the last thing I will declare to the earth is that "This is God's truth."

In this, it appear clear that Hollands testimony is paper thin. It is based not upon having seen Christ himself (i'll address that in a mo) but rather on a bogus perception of the complexity of the BOM and the early age of the author.

His closing remark about his death bed sounds a lot like 'With my dying breath i'll still be self indoctrinating as in truth i know no more than you'.


Now, if Holland had really seen Christ - if I had or Tom had, this is what i imagine the testimony would have sounded like:

"It was the morning of XYZ. I stood in the celestial room of the Temple in Salt Lake City. The room was empty, i had been left alone for a solemn and eternally significant occasion. The doors were closed and despite that a strong rush of wind appeared to enter the room, the whole room appeared to glow as if light were entering from nowhere. He stepped forward, from what i can only describe as an orb of light, his skin perfect, his eyes filled with compassion, taller than i, radiant, beautiful. I knew instantly. My eyes filled. tears ran. Swallowing back the overwhelming emotion. He smiled softly and he spoke my name with a voice that vibrate right through the centre of my soul.

"Jeffery, Well done. Welcome"

I cannot share more of what was said, but i can testify this. I SAW the very living christ with my own eyes. Not in a dream, not in a vision, but in the room. I heard his voice with my ears. I felt the sound of his words. He took my hand, and i felt the strength and flesh. I testify to you that I know he lives because i have seen him, i have spoken with him, i have knelt before him and had his hand on my head, and i watched with my own eyes as he departed from the centre of the room in as majestic a fashion as he entered. Brothers and Sisters, be in no doubt. He lives. I am one of his witnesses. He is the saviour. I bear the cost solemn testimony to you, ITNOJC Amen.

+++++++

What do you recon? Does that sound a little more like the testimony of a man that had seen christ and was a genuine apostle, as opposed to 'Who knows how else this book could have been written, i don't. Therefore Joseph must be telling the truth so believe'.