Everyone these days seems to believe in "Catharsis Theory": to get rid of negative emotions, simply talk about them a lot, and then, they just kind of drain out of you.

This turned out not to be my experience after my marriage/family finally fell apart five years after we left Mormonism. Words can't describe how devastated I felt, so every time someone asked me how I was doing, it was like someone had once again knocked the cap off a giant bottle of shaken Coke. All the shock and horror and nausea would just come spewing out again. I was a walking Krakatoa of Despair, liable to erupt at any moment.

I talked about my despair to counselors. I talked about it to friends. I talked about it to strangers. Often, I talked way, way too long. The anguish seemed to push me to do it.

But one day, I noticed something which took me aback: someone who regularly asked me for updates about my situation was actually *getting off on the turmoil and drama*. It was sick, but true. And this got me thinking about my *own* relationship to all the turmoil. I ended up sensing that, far from "dispelling" my despair, talking about it as much as I did was actually kind of lending new energy to it. I wondered if I was caught in something of a negative feedback loop:

I felt devastated; I expressed the feelings of devastation; expressing the feelings of devastation left me feeling even more devastated; so I expressed the feelings of devastation, etc.

Maybe, I thought, I'm stuck. Or this habit is making me stuck.

So - I'm just throwing this out there in case it helps anyone else - I decided that maybe, just maybe, the REAL key to me moving on was in simply *shutting the hell up about it*. AND disciplining my thoughts - re-taking control of my brain - and shutting down ANY resurgence of the brooding over the cataclysm which had befallen me. A thought would pop into my head, and ZAP, I'd stop it, and try as hard as I could to think about something else - something *productive*, like about a new project or something.

My recovery from a devastating post-Mormonism break-up didn't happen because I yakked about it. Catharsis Theory didn't work for me. The journey to peace really gained momentum once I embraced "Shut the Hell Up Theory" - even when I *wanted* to talk about it. *Especially* when I wanted to talk about it. Talking about it just gave the pain new life. The marriage wasn't coming back; I had to move on, for myself and potentially for my kids; and "shut-up stoicism" - for me, anyway - was the key.

Just one man's experience, but maybe "Shut the Hell Up Theory" will work for someone else, too.

Good luck in your post-Mormonism journey.

T.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2015 11:10PM by Tal Bachman.

In my mind, reality TV is so popular because so many people love to live through the drama in other people's lives.

As a society, I think we overshare our feelings, etc. In part, I think we are encouraged to by therapists who need us to overshare to make a good living.

Therapy seems to me to be about 80 percent hogwash. You talk, they listen but offer little insight or advice, and then charge you a huge fee.

That's a great post in so many ways. A wise cognitive perspective on something that most people go through, Mormon or not.

But you were fortunate that anyone wanted to listen to you. In my case, the shutting up was almost automatic, since no one wanted to hear it. Even on this board, no one anted to hear it.

So I'll practice your advice in private, interrupting the negative thoughts that no one ever hears or understands except me.

I had a different and yet similar experience, not with religion but with my son's mental illness. I talked and talked and talked about it to anyone who would listen. One day, I was at a park by the beach and some nice lady came and sat on the bench that I was sitting on and asked me how I was. I proceeded to tell her all about the horrors of dealing with a loved one with schizoprenia and noticed her disengaging. Then, when my friends, to whom I had shared every blow by blow description of every tirade and strange behavior, practically disowned me as a friend when I allowed son to live with me again, I decided to stop talking about it. I shut the hell up.

And you know what? He/it (living with him) has its ups and downs, but it is not nearly as bad as it was. My own anxiety is practically a thing of the past.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2015 08:29PM by wine country girl.

That is what I just don't understand. Why share something that private and personal with a complete stranger?

I know many people who do just that. It has happened to me more than a couple of times.

I never understood the need to do that.

I think when you're in a lot of pain, you just want someone, anyone, to make it go away.

I guess I am the oddball on this.

For me, talking endlessly about bad things that happen in my life doesn't make it better, it just keeps me focused on those things.

Like I said, I've stopped talking about it.

Thanks for these insights. I understand what you mean. I have been stuck in that cycle many times over the years. After 36 years of faithful, devoted membership in the church I learned it is not what it claims to be. I was beyond devastated. These last few months has been a journey of letting go and examining how do I make sense of right from wrong, truth from error and good from evil. My confidence was shattered. So I went to a therapist for help, and instead wasted four months of my life and became more depressed from his incompetency. I left that experience feeling more angry and frustrated. After that, I too, wanted to just remain silent until I could find a professional to talk to. I learned to shut up. It is a very hard skill to learn. In the meantime, I decided to write my feelings and experiences in a journal where that is a safe, private place. I'm sorry to hear of your losses.

Thanks for sharing your process over the past five years here at RfM. Your openness about this human process has helped me tune into some of my life process as well.

BTW these two sentences of yours are a creative explosion I've re read several times to savor, like sipping a fine liqueur: "Words can't describe how devastated I felt, so every time someone asked me how I was doing, it was like someone had once again knocked the cap off a giant bottle of shaken Coke. All the shock and horror and nausea would just come spewing out again. I was a walking Krakatoa of Despair, liable to erupt at any moment."

Thank your sir!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2015 08:42PM by cricket.

Not original thinking by me but something that I have come to realize. Whatever one focus's on, thinks about, expends energy on grows/expands. Whether it is something positive or negative.

Jumping on a tar baby only covers one in tar and keeps one stuck on the tar baby. It has been my experience that if I leave the bad stuff alone, it gradually becomes smaller and will disappear if it is not resurrected and rehashed.

I tend to get become more satisfied and happier if I discipline myself and consciously choose to only ponder or think about things that I feel good. And for me, nothing is more important than that I feel good. I have nothing of value to offer anyone if I jump on a tar baby, (mine or someone else's), Doesn't mean that I don't notice or am unaware of the yuck, just means I don't want to help it expand by giving air time to it in my head.

I prefer to look for solutions rather than staying focused on the problem. I grew up watching all the "Chicken Little's" running around yelling that the sky is falling and often jumped on the band wagon with them. Not so much anymore. I find life lots more fun and enjoyable by minding my own business.

There is actually some research on PTSD that suggests that retelling the trauma, reinforces it in the mind.

That was heartfelt -- and intelligent and articulate.

I'm genuinely sorry for what you're going through. I think you are right -- it's time for you to move on from obsessing -- although to be fair to the whole process, there is a time and a place of all of it -- anger, regret, tears, trying on other lives, obsessing, talking about it endlessly -- and moving on to other projects.

I think a lot of therapy is overrated, just by the by. SOMETIMES it works. Sometimes not so much. Bewilderingly -- like so much of life.

Sorry I can't offer you more. I do feel for you. And I think the WISH to move on to other things is a sign of returning health. Just expect to relapse. But I think you will find that those recurring bouts will shorten and the time between them will lengthen. It's a long road. But you might as well be on it -- as the house you were living in burnt to the ground.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2015 10:57PM by janeeliot.

Men are better at keeping their feelings inside than women are.

I wonder if this has anything to do with Tal's theory? Stoicism?

Is it a weakness for a man to be perceived as sensitive and emotional, wearing his heart on his sleeve moreover than a gal? Society still has these double standards that it makes me wonder.

Women let it out easier than guys, usually, as in most of the time. Does it mean it works for us better? Depression is repressed anger turned inward I've heard countless times. Don't know how true it is, but according to many it's a given.

Back to Tal's theory of Shutting Up, and letting time heal the wound/s. Reminds me of another school of psychology I studied some years ago called "Behavioral Therapy." And it's modeled after Tal's "Shut the Hell Up Theory."

Whatever behavior you're trying to model and become starts by modeling the behavior rather than talking about it. The act of doing it is what is constructive. It's used as a form of cognitive behavioral modification to replace bad habits with good ones. Positive reinforcement follows positive behavior modeling.

It's still okay to just talk it out sometimes though, in the right company. Whether that's with a therapist, a trusted family member, or a familiar confidante. Knowing when to keep a tight lip makes all the difference in the wrong company, or the wrong time and place etc.

:)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2015 11:22PM by amyjo.

Very interesting and I appreciate all the incite.

before everyone just wanted me to get over it AND I had an older brother who had a brain hemorrhage about the time my husband left me. My parents had to take care of him, so they weren't there for me either. They later apologized for it.

I got a therapist and did talk therapy. I NEEDED to talk about it. I found that burying it wasn't helping me heal. And coming here over the years has helped because I can talk to all of you and you don't even know who I am.

I have healed extensively, but I needed to talk it out, write it down.

But I didn't talk to family, friends, even children, etc., I talked to my wonderful therapist. He saved my life.

And considering my ex lives downstairs and we are best friends says something for the healing that has happened. I pretty much HATED him for a long, long time.

I think it has more to do with who you share it with.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2015 10:17AM by cl2.

St.HUT it is. Like turning off the TV. Peace and quiet sure does wonders. Works for me.

I would agree with this Tal. Thanks for your insightful post.

Great observation Tal.

Just yesterday I was guilty of giving out a little more personal info when asked how I was doing and I reviewed in my mind what I did afterwards.

The need for personal validation is a strong force. I think the Shut Up theory is one we need to learn is as important as something like Cog Diss.

We need to understand it to recognize it in ourselves before we are capable of making the necessary adjustments.

Always learning, always changing.

I agree with Tal too - but then I would, I'm British ;-)

Excuse me?
How long anybody needs to be in this journey?

I, too, was doing this back in the 90's when my husband came out as a gay man. We kept the secret for months as we dissected our whole life history as a couple. When we separated, I started telling people about it and soon it became somewhat of a problem. I got to the point where I was kind of wallowing in the mess of it all.

Finally, I decided I needed to stop talking so much about it. I found a job in another city where NO one knew my history and I was very quiet about it. I felt so much better because I didn't get the "oh, poor dear" vibe anymore. It was the beginning of the healing process for me and I was able to move on from the horrible mess. So, I think the "shut the hell up theory" is valid. At least it was for me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2015 10:14AM by gemini.

I realized that our relationship was NEVER going to work, and that the pain of leaving her was less than the pain of being around her.

I talked to very few people about it. Later, I found someone else who was a much better match and now the two of us have been happily married for 38 years.

Although psychiatrists may be of some help to some people, they don't really know you and the longer they keep you in tow, the more money they make.

I'm sure that Tal would have tried everything possible to make his relationship work. And if you can't trust his judgement after seeing his reasoning skills here on RFM, you may as well go back into Mormonism where someone else thinks for you.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2015 11:02AM by darksparks.

I have excellent insurance. I'm not someone who 'leans' on others and I won't ask for help. Going to a therapist was the obvious choice. I'd refer ANYONE I know to him and EVERYONE I've referred to him has loved him. I looked for a while before I found him. Did he get rich off me? I don't care as HE DIDN'T.

Which would cost more, my spiraling into more financial difficulties because I couldn't get off the bed or going to someone so I could pick up the pieces of my life? Anyone who knows me is amazed at how far I've come.

I don't go to regular doctors much. I just as well use my insurance in some fashion. Thank God I had the insurance to do so.

Last September my husband and I went to Cabo San Lucas, landing a day ahead of the hurricane that devastated the area. We spent nearly a week there before the military was able to air lift us out. It was terrible for many reasons, and I passed out twice from heat stroke while waiting in long lines at the airport in the extreme heat. I though for sure I was going to die there.

Once home (that in itself was difficult as they flew us late at night to Tijuana) I could help myself talking about it. I had been so traumatized by it. My mother said I should write down the experience, but to me that seemed to give it a life I didn't want it to have.

After several months of talking about it, I found myself no longer wanting to talk about it. Even writing this much about it is an unpleasant sensation. I guess I'm really over what happened.

For me, I had to get it out in order to be satiated and safe and over it. The talking like a vomiting person purged it from my soul. So without the talking phase, I couldn't get to the "shut the hell up" phase.

"For me, I had to get it out in order to be satiated and safe and over it. The talking like a vomiting person purged it from my soul. So without the talking phase, I couldn't get to the "shut the hell up" phase."

this was so good i just had to quote it so it could be posted twice

Where they are in their recovery, their level of resilience, the tools they have, and how much they've processed about their trauma/experience.

I couldn't talk about what happened to me for two years because I didn't even know it had a name. I didn't know what that name was until I started posting on here regularly. And it was painful and like being re-traumatized all over again when I started talking about it, but I started to feel better, especially when I sat down with my sister and explained what really was going on during that summer of '04.

She and many others didn't have a clue what was going on behind the scenes and know they do know, and can understand why I was such a mess. Giving the experience a name was empowering for me, because now I knew what really happened and I could move on. Obviously I still have PTSD and triggers from the experience, but they have less hold on me now because I talked about it and processed the trauma. Now I can shut up about it unless it's necessary to help another person with the information and tools I've obtained. I spent the first 25 years of my life on a merry-go-round of trauma, abuse, and pain and holding it in for so long was not healthy or conducive to becoming a functional adult.

The other day, an acquaintance from my days of goth posted something personal and heartfelt about what he was dealing with and I responded with my brick analogy. He was appreciative that someone else could understand what he was going through.

On the other side of this, I can't stand to hear people whine about the same thing day in and day out, but never do anything to change or improve their situation. A former friend would only contact me to bitch and whine about her life and when I finally called her on it, she flipped out, hence one of the reasons we're former friends. Venting has its purpose, but eventually becomes a tar pit of negative emotions if you're never willing to step out. It will suck you in if you choose to wallow deeper into the pit until you drown.

So for some, they need to talk about it ad nauseam until they can get to the point the emotional vomit has left them. Others don't need as much processing and can move on, while others never deal with their traumas and it affects their lives and others around them negatively. Talking about your trauma with an objective third party is immensely helpful if you're willing to be honest with yourself. Therapy only works with the right therapist and if you want help.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2015 01:16PM by Itzpapalotl.

I have also been able to help others who found themselves in a difficult situation because I had been there. I helped my brother, my son, and my boyfriend through their divorces. I have talked to many ex-wives of gay men and also to gay men themselves. I just recently talked to someone who found something I wrote here and helped him get in contact with people who have helped him more than I could.

In the beginning, I saw my therapist twice a week. Now I see him once or twice a year like when my dog died recently. My therapist knows my entire story. I don't have to rehash anything. He doesn't focus on the past, deals with the present. He actually uses my story in speeches he gives around the nation. And, yes, we are now friends.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2015 11:56AM by cl2.

It sounds to me like you may have through an act of will, forced yourself to move to the next stage of the natural progression these things take.

My deepest moment of despair in my life was followed, as yours, by seemingly uncontrollable urges to wail loudly and incessantly to any sentient being over the pain I was experiencing. I was not quite as self-aware as you, perhaps, and found friends growing fatigued over time with my darkness.

As the pain decreases, these things move from an emergency room event to an outpatient procedure. Lots of screaming in the emergency room. Not quite so much elsewhere.

When struggling through the difficulties of life, I, for one, very much appreciate that there are a good many people that care for me enough to call and ask how I am doing. Even an old boyfriend, that I have not heard from in over a year, has called to see how I am doing nursing my mother through her last days.

If we keep pushing away those that care and would lend us their shoulder to cry on, and give us the renewing strength of their love, then the time will come when no one will care about us at all.

What a sorry state of existence that would be.

For me, after my very public and painful betrayal and divorce, talking was the best mechanism that I had at my disposal to expunge / process / resolve the emotional devastation that I was going through.

Like you Tal, I yammered and yammered and yammered.

Until I didn't need to yammer any more.

It's what I call the cutover point. The activation energy. The inertial maximum.

I realized at a certain point that the continual yammering was acting as a negative feedback loop, as you say. I realized that the yammering was harming my emotional progress, not helping.

But at the early stages of my divorce, I disagree with your supposition. Then, I believe it was healthy for me to "talk it out", repeatedly. But after a year or so, the value-added benefit to my life from talking quickly began to diminish. It became time for a new stage in my recovery / healing. And that new stage didn't involve so much talking.

So that's the advice that I give to others that are going through a painful separation / divorce / death: Talk, and talk, and talk, until you don't need to talk any more. And then. Move on. Move on to a different phase of healing. Maybe a more introspective, self-actualizing phase (if you will).

I think incessant yammering has a time and a place for somebody going through the grief stages. But too, I think some people (maybe lots of people) can easily become trapped in that phase, and are thus unable to move forward in their lives.

2¢.

I want to say a sincere thank you to everyone who shared their stories on here. I felt very moved reading through this thread, and I hope everyone is doing better than ever, and past all those tough times.