http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1633664

I think Tom Phillips and Jeffrey Holland exchanged some emails regarding Tom's questions about problems with mormon doctrine.

Is Jeffrey Holland more unstable since his exchange with Tom?

Did Tom give Holland a final nudge over the edge?

I don't have any idea, but would love for Tom to weigh in

on this. Dodo has seemed more cantankerous since the

episode with anointed one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2015 04:51PM by flanders.

From my POV. Holland seems unhinged. Like he is hiding behind the door holding his breath. When he exhales and steps out he blusters and grasps at straws. He can't be having a very good time of living in his (with his) fear Got to be on some kind of anxiety medicine.

Tom's interaction with Jeff most likely sent Jeff into a faster tail spin but the guy was already spinning before Tom Hit.

Tom is my hero though! His intelligence, integrity and honesty makes me proud to say, "yeah.. me too.. the emperor has no clothes and is looking for a curtain to hide his nakedness behind.

Although Holland is in daily contact with the reassuring voices of active Mormons at different levels and in various situations I believe his present relationship with Tom would have more of an impact on him than most.

I understand their relationship was once built on mutual respect and genuine affection which included their families too.

Whether or not it is pushing Holland over the edge or not I couldn't say but we all can appreciate that these things can gnaw away at us. I believe if he has at least some of the goodness in him that Tom once admired then he must sometimes find himself wrestling with his conscience.

While I do not know either man personally, and only learned of the church's system of deception 9 months ago after being a member for 36 years, I would say no, Tom nor any of the other good bishops, stake presidents, and mission presidents, etc., did not send any one over the edge or out the church doors. They were the men holding the fort together until the day of reality and truth showed up. We need to remember the ultimate sacrifices that Tom and many men gave up willingly because they believed. No one wants to be betrayed and lied to and forced to base their lives, families and earth experience on a scam. The Q12 & FP receive thousands of letters, etc. weekly. Some letters they receive are full of praise and others are full of questions. There is nothing wrong with asking questions. We must ssk questions. Asking questions is a sign of growth and learning. If a person is not questioning, he/she is stuck or dead via letting other people do their thinking for them.

Holland grew up in mormonism and the pressures at his level are sufficient to escalate the major depression he claimed in GC that he has suffered with for many years. Elder Holland is responsible alone for Elder Holland. There is no excuse for Elder Holland to rant and rage in GC and at mission conferences. If the church were true and if he were a true apostle, he should be modeling how to follow Christ and be a person of love, charity, kindness, and compassion. You know, practice what you preach. What Elder Holland is demonstrating something dark and desperate. His rants and rages are evidence, because they have been going on for a long time and have been escalating, that he knows the church is not true and the members are rushing over each other to exit the church. It must be terribly frustrating and lonely for Elder Holland to know the truth and not be able to answer questions from millions of honest seekers. That feeling of entrapment and helplessness against the machine is a deep source of pain for Elder Holland, for sure. I feel sorry for him because he doesn't have any freedom. If Elder Holland comes clean and tells the truth with evidence of the fraud the church has been involved with since its inception, the legal and financial consequences would be enormous. Just think of the thousands of LDS members have committed suicide. The realization of promoting a system that produces that result alone creates enough guilt to eat away at their life.

Not in my way of thinking. I think Howler Holland has sent himself over the edge. I personally believe he basks in the attention and adoration he receives from fellow cult members and, never forget, the easy-breezy-comfy-cozy-life he enjoys.

In my book he took that fork in the road years ago that has led him to where he sits now. I wonder if he ever picks up a book to read in the field in graduated in or if he pursues any intellectual interest. I myself highly doubt it as I think the proof is that he does not reference these in any talks that I am aware of, and I think he would.

My thinking, all three cents worth, is that his reasoning is that there are a lot of worse ways to live, plus the handy mormon cult makes life for him and his, too cushy to cast aside for mere silly evidence that points to truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2015 11:44PM by presleynfactsrock.

or was it MORmONISM ?

Magical worldviews are morMonic.

Jeff Holland is exactly the kind of evil person that M.Scott Peck described so thoroughly in his classic book "People of the Lie." The harm that he has inflicted on countless families such as Tom Phillips only continues and his fraud as a so-called educator has left so many students unprepared to think for themselves. I detest the man.

Your post just smacked me upside the head! Dammit I've read this book and used it to remove a real piece of shit from my company 10 years ago. It took the information in that book to prove to my partner we had someone truly evil in our firm.

It worked. The man was ousted and the entire situation he had created disappeared.

I'm going to find that book again and now see what I think about it since I've discovered TSCC is a fraud.

You gotta read Tom's letter's & podcasts....(by John Dehlin)
He is rock_solid in his allegations & facts....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2015 09:17AM by quinlansolo.

Agree with opinions that Holland is miserable.

Tom Phillips is the man with integrity, light and truth.

His MS 4 hr podcast with John Dehlin is well worth the time to listen to and will make you a fan.

Bravo to Tom Phillips.