The BSA pulled one over on the TSCC today by voting to admit openly gay leaders.

One of the funniest things to me was the fact that TSCC asked the BSA to delay the vote until August. Why? Because ALL the Apostles and 70's take the entire month of July OFF WITH PAY. NOTHING happens at the COB in July so the elite leaders can vacation for 30 days without interruption.

Here's a quote from the the statement that makes it clear TSCC are pissed the vote was held without Mormon representation:

"In spite of a request to delay the vote, it was scheduled at a time in July when members of the Church’s governing councils are out of their offices and do not meet." OUT OF THEIR OFFICES ON 30 DAYS PAID VACATION.

"As a global organization with members in 170 countries, the Church has long been evaluating the limitations that fully one-half of its youth face where Scouting is not available. Those worldwide needs combined with this vote by the BSA National Executive Board will be carefully reviewed by the leaders of the Church in the weeks ahead.”

Looks like Scouting is going to get a lot more inclusive and a lot more professional without Mormon troops bringing down the standards.

When TSCC pulls out of Scouting it will be another punch to the Public Relations gut.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2015 02:48AM by Doubting Thomas.

Here's the link to the LDS Newsroom statement:

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-re-evaluating-scouting-program

This might be more work for the Church, but is likely not to be a problem. Just as with Girl Scouts of the USA not being officially Church sponsored and the Young Women Personal Progress / Young Womenhood Recognition program in its place, if they decide not to continue the Boy Scouts of America program as an officially Church sponsored activity, they'll likely replace the program with a Young Men equivalent. They've already got existing programs to use for that purpose and/or to serve as the basis for a new program created for that purpose. And as with GSUSA, an existing award would be recognized and/or a new award would be created for the purpose of official BSA religious award recognition for any Mormon Scouts participating outside of the Church. (Girl Scouts is American Girl Guides, for you non-Americans out there ;-) )

And any Mormon Boy Scouts who participate in the Scouting program, as with Girl Scouts, will now enjoy a more inclusive program with people of many faiths, and with non-religious (and/or generically 'theistic' - i.e., acceptable to people of many faiths who believe in one God) activities that are traditional to the Scouting program and are not intrinsically or exclusively Mormon, and will make friends with many more people whom they might have never known if they were only involved with a Scouting program that was affiliated with their Church.

I have nephews in the south that have always participated with a Methodist Scouting program even though their father was a bishop and a member of the stake presidency.

His parents were Methodists and that's how they justified it, but ALWAYS admitted that it was REAL Scouting compared to what was going on in their on ward.

What is their problem? !!!!!!
Scouting does not need the church. In the UK as far as I know it is not linked to LDS Church
Tell me how someones sexual oriention effects how they run a group?

Their concern is that (they fear) having openly / actively LGBTQ scout leaders who are serving as their authorities / in leadership positions would teach their kids that it's okay to have same-sex attraction and not be ashamed of it and/or to feel free to act on it as if there is nothing wrong with that. Which is exactly against what the Church teaches. That's why they don't want any LGBTQ leaders, at least as long as they continue to ban gay marriage in the Church. (With the doctrine of continuing revelation firmly in place, we'll see if that ever changes or not...)

AND yes, neither Scouting needs the Church, nor does the Church need Scouting. Outside of the USA Scouting is independent of the Church. And while Boy Scouts does maintain 'duty to God' as a fundamental principle, it has historically been separate from Church and admitted people of many faiths as members.

Duty to God is supposed to mean duty to YOUR god if you have one. If you don't there is no duty required.

Actually no. Boy Scouts of America does not admit atheists officially. Because Duty to God is a principle set by the founder of Boy Scouts and is considered to be integral to the mission of Scouts. They allow theists of other faiths but not of no faith at this time. Girl Scouts of the USA does however allow girls with differing beliefs to substitute God for what they would feel most comfortable with in their equivalent To Serve God and My Country. Policies vary by country but some Scouting organizations share similar policies. For example Bharat Scouts and Guides (combined Boy Scouts and Girl Guides Scouting organization in India) allows members to substitute Dharma which literally means Duty in Sanskrit and in languages derived from it like modern day Hindi in Duty to God. Boy Scouts of America does not allow this accommodation for atheists at this time.

Scouting is the Lord's appointed divine program! I had the beat into eerrrrrr explained to me until I became an Eagle scout at 13.

Bet they replace it with The Sons of Helaman or such.

Maybe Seagull Scout will replace Eagle Scout.

There are already some Christian Scouting programs out there (such as American Heritage Girls for girls and Trail Life USA for boys). I do think it's more likely they'll just develop their own replacement Young Men program much as there is an equivalent Young Women program in place of Girl Scouts.

Ah! I had forgotten. American Heritage Girls requires all leaders to be Trinitarian Christians. Community of Christ / former RLDS may qualify, since they accept a Trinitarian view, but as it stands now The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would NOT qualify as they are not Trinitarian Christians. I believe that currently individual Scouts are not required to be Trinitarian Christians for membership, but leaders are. This may apply to certain other Christian Scout programs as well. In which case they would have to find a program with no such requirements, change their doctrine, or make their own program in its place.

They already have developed their own program It's called Duty to God and they have been massaging it for over a decade. It will be the replacement. Total emphasis on a program everyone has been struggling to run side by side with Scouting.

They'll pump it up and now be able to integrate it with seminary and ward activities. Perfect for 18 year old missionaries.

Goodbye Scouting.

Yes but Duty to God had somewhat been integrated with the Scouting program. The phrase is literally taken from the Scout Oath of Boy Scouts of America. I guess it would be separate now if they drop Scouting altogether.

Young Womanhood Recognition is an officially recognized Girl Scouts of the USA religious award for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon) as they are officially listed (Community of Christ has their own as well) but is officially separate from the Scouting program. Perhaps LDS Duty to God shall be the same.

They are going to have their own program. It might be called Mormon Scouts, but it will go by its beloved nickname MS. It will continue to teach the Christ like attribute of exclusiveness.

Now the boys in the church can have a fantastic program like the girls have.
Wow!

^ This ^ LOL!!!! Good luck boys. Maybe you can learn to crochet.

Girl Scouts do WAY more than just that ...

Ah, "in church" you said! Sorry, misread. There is a persistent (and wrong) stereotype that knitting and crochet and such activities are all that Girl Scouts do, while Boy Scouts are the "real" Scouts ...

Now their Church program shall be fully religious - as it ought to be - and not some religion/Scouting hybrid. Scouting recognizes religious values (hence Duty to God) but is not in itself religious and I feel it is better kept separate.

Maybe the top 15 are secretly pleased with the BSA ruling. Every year the church pays a lot of money to them, which goes directly to the coffers of BSA. Our ward asked each family for $100 to support "friends of scouting". (This is in addition to tithing).

Now the church can create their own program for the boys, still ask the members to financially support it, and the money will continue to grow in the church's coffers.

This ruling is simply a way for the idiots in SLC to save face because it gives them an excuse to get out of BSA without (at least to them) looking like the bad guy. Their decision to get out will be touted as a moral thing, but in reality it will be motivated by money.

Exactly! This decision doesn't affect them at all. They're just looking for an excuse to get out...probably to replace Boy Scouts with an indoctrination-based young men's program.

Just one less fun thing the church has to worry about.

Wouldn't it be nice if LDS, Inc. started actually advocating for families? What if they said all Americans should have July off to be with their families? What if they advocated for the US to join the rest of the world in giving maternity and paternity leave?

Mormon family values are discrimination and slutshaming. As long as you only fuck your wives, they are fine with you polluting the planet, underpaying your employees, and voting against social justice.

Like all things Mormon ONLY the ELITE enjoy the perks. The rank and file employees of the Mormon church will always get the scraps of the leaders.

the recent decision by the BSA should not have been a suprise. BSA is trying desperately to recreate a relevant orginization based on 100+ year old principles.

I see at two possibilities. 1) the church goes cold turkey and cancels all sponsorship and support of BSA. The church then inacts its own BSA styled program world wide. 2) the church tapers down its support and allows individual units (stakes/wards) to decide if they want to sponsor scouting but the unit will have to come up with the funding to support it. The church will also offer a similiar, 0-cost program.

The final outcome will be the same. 5 years from now, the church will not be involved with BSA.

I think if someone was to dig into the scouting history of the General authorities, you would find that Pres Monson is the only big scouter. Neither the smooth german or the weepy scientist were in scouts as boys.

From the BSA perspective, in the short term it will hurt, but in the long term it will be better for Scouting. In over 40 years of working with BSA as a boy and adult, I never seen a Mormon unit worthy of its Charter. I've never seen a Mormon Eagle Scout that earned his rank. My Tenderfoot Scouts know more scouting skills than their Eagles. I once as a Mormon Eagle Scout candidate at an Eagle board of review how he got his nights camping for Camping Merit Badge. He listed Scout Camp (only one week can count) and RV camping with his parents for the rest (which doesn't qualify). I was required to pass him for his board. Many others couldn't tie knots that were required for even 2nd Class Scouts.

BSA changed too many programs and rules to accommodate the morg. The whole Venture scout program is a morg abomination. Several years ago I dropped out of Scouting due to the morg domination in our area. Only mormons were picked to be on Wood Badge staff and other things. If the morg drop it I'll be the first one back helping.

Good Riddance.

Steve
(Eagle Scout, Vigil Honor OA, SM Award of Merit, Silver Beaver)

I have to agree with you. I remember times in my LDS troop when total goof offs were passed on certain merit badges with SUBSTANTIAL help from their leaders. I'm a Life Scout for life. I had only the service project left to perform. I became disillusioned when I saw the kids of richer and better-liked members of the ward have basically everything prepared and done for them... Literally, all they had to do is show up and take a photo and it counted. It really made me suspicious of scouting and I made a conscious decision that I would "trip" so close to the finish line. By that time, I had no testimony to speak of, and I just wanted to turn 18 so I could move out of the house without having to embarrass my parents with emancipation proceedings. The thing that irked me was that for a long while, I took the learning seriously. I learned the knots; I practiced hard at archery; I was a star at community service. I thought that to be an Eagle Scout, there out to be some grand exam at the end, like the Bar exam. I thought (and still think) that even the most minute details and skill of a merit badge's requirements ought to be recalled, demonstrated, and explained like a reflex--without hesitation. I could do it that. Once I realized I have was the only one (in my ward) taking it seriously, I quit and I quit hard. And until this last week, I've never had occasion to look back. Now that I have, no regrets.

Similar happened with Girl Scouts not long ago. A separate Trinitarian Christian organization was formed (American Heritage Girls) and many people did switch there. Some were unhappy with the national support of Planned Parenthood as well and some girls did things like selling their own homemade Pro Life Cookies instead of Girl Scout Cookies. Apart from that many girls - who were either okay with what GSUSA was doing or didn't much care (as it did not really affect existing local troops) stayed with the program, some of those whose churches stopped supporting rejoined Girl Scouts somewhere else, and GSUSA goes on, still very strong. There is now at least one major Christian Boy Scout alternative for those who want to leave - called Trail Life USA - and we shall see how it goes, but I expect similar. In the long term BSA will be fine.

TSCC will not, in the end, drop scouting. Rather, it knows it needs scouting facilities and respect more than scouting needs TSCC.

And perhaps the BSA will see that too, and continue dragging the church along into the current century.

So all this time BSA leaders have been drinking beer and having unmarried sex and getting tattoos and golfing on Sunday and not giving ten percent of gross to a giant corporation and aren't mormons, and only after gays get approved the Church gets offended?

DING DING DING. Great comment. This proves TSCC is simply homophobic. Game over.

Right there with you, magic. I've become less active after turning over the post of Scoutmaster and my son Eagled out. I might go back, and volunteer at the council level if the creepy Morgbots disappear.

Believe me there are plenty of NON LDS Scouters that would LOVE to see the LDS church GONE from Scouting. They are tired of changing the program for Mormon's and watching the lame approach of many leaders and boys.

Not slamming Mormon leaders or boys who do try and participate, but you can't match the level of commitment when you are making participation MANDATORY.

Believe me there are LDS leaders and Scouts that would be welcome in NON-LDS troops. The number would be about 1 out of 10 leaders and boys.

Were Scouting to become voluntary the families who participate are (mostly) the families who really want to be there. They would all be welcome.

4 or 5 weeks of paid vacation for men who will ****never**** get to retire does not freak me out.

I hope their wives enjoy the time they have with their husbands.

It's about building a financial dynasty for their family. ALSO when you take 1/12 out of every year off, and can take other time off ANY TIME YOU WANT IT, you can work you're entire life.

Also do you think these guys are getting up at 6:00 a.m. to be in the office by 8:30 a.m.?

LDS members are getting hosed by their leaders.

Here is a link to an explanation that Tom Phillips gave as to what it's like for these men.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1629121,1629923#msg-1629923

I read Tom's insight and it would seem that he would have real insight. My response is simply no matter how many meetings they go to they can still do whatever they want and have plenty of down time to enjoy life.

Not as much when you have so many mandatory or expected meetings ...