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Posted by: XX-Man ( )
Date: October 18, 2010 06:05PMComment on "An Open Letter to the Leadership of the Mormon Church" , from postmormon.org site.
I just recently read, for the first time, this letter that was published on Craiglist of 2009 and that can be found through this link....
http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/pomopedia/An_Open_Letter_to_the_Leadership_of_the_...
The letter was anonymously written for the obvious reasons as you can see when you read this letter all the way through.
This man took the path of staying in the church for the stated reasons while others, like myself, have taken the path of resignation from the church. I do, however, very much feel the pain this man went through and probably continues to go through right now, as I felt myself in a similar position. I really wonder just how many members in the church today find themselves in a similar position as this writer did.
It certainly seems to put so may members in a very difficult situation if they ever decide to research and find out the real truths about Mormonism and then are faced with the huge decision about what to do with that knowledge as they uncover all the very real evidences that point to the only logical conclusion, that the origins of the Mormon Church were fraudulent. How many just continue to hang in there and stay with Mormonism for the cultural reasons or whatever and choose to lie in interviews and not to "rock the boat" with their family and friends as did this man? The pain and difficultly that this approach causes is quite obvious as you read this letter.
I am in my 60s now and left the church about 3 years ago once I arrived at the same kind of knowledge that this man did. I come from a total Mormon family, BYU educated, temple marriage, 6 kids, and similar experiences in the church as this writer had and yet, I chose the only path that I seemed able to tolerate and that my own personl integrity would allow, by leaving the church. This has been very painful for me in many ways and did cost me a near 40 year marriage, however, I still don't know how I could have done anything other than what I did. I do now feel much more at ease with myself in choosing to believe what makes logical, rational, and common sense as per spiritual or religious matters and I feel it okay to just say I really don't know as to the big questions about God and what happens to all of us when we die.
I do, however, understand why this writer has made the choices that he did as, for some, this might be the only thing they could really see themselves ever doing in this regards.
What are some of your thoughts as per this kind of choice that so many of us who frequent this site have to make?
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Posted by: XX-Man ( )
Date: October 18, 2010 06:20PMA better link for the letter, sorry...
Try this link www.postmormon.org/exp_e/indes.php/pomopedia/An_Open_Letter_to_the_Leadership_of_the_Mormon_Church/
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Posted by: badseed ( )
Date: October 18, 2010 07:16PMcan't get either link to work (n/t)
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Posted by: Twinker ( )
Date: October 18, 2010 07:21PMTry this: (note the
http://) Maybe that makes the diff.
http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/pomopedia/An_Open_Letter_to_the_Leadership_of_the_Mormon_Church/Options: Reply•Quote
Posted by: XX-Man ( )
Date: October 18, 2010 09:43PMThanks for help getting correct link. I'm not very computer savy. n/t (n/t)
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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: October 18, 2010 09:40PMRe: Comment on "An Open Letter to the Leadership of the Mormon Church" , from postmormon.org site.
This may be the same letter which has been reprinted on the exmormon foundation website.
Try www.exmormonfoundation.org
I am also in my 60's and raised two sets of children--one under the Morg and one outside it. Huge difference in the two sets now that they are all adults, the Mormon kids detonating their own chances for happiness through oppositional choices (i.e., doing everything opposite what Mormonism taught). I almost feel like Mormonism innoculated them against the very values that I held most dear. When you preach freedom and agency and then use social pressure to nullify that freedom, rather than respect individual choices, terrible things happen in the psyche.
Congratulations that you survived the brainwashing with a sense that your own integrity was worth something. Lyin' fer the Lawd asks you to compromise that and when you think about it, the message really is that you and your righteousness are not as important as the survival of the Golden Goose.
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Posted by: Way Out ( )
Date: October 18, 2010 11:34PMRe: Comment on "An Open Letter to the Leadership of the Mormon Church" , from postmormon.org site.
anagrammy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When you preach freedom and agency and then
> use social pressure to nullify that freedom,
> rather than respect individual choices, terrible
> things happen in the psyche.
Very well said. Up is down, good is evil, evil is good. Very disorienting.
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Posted by: Ishmael ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 01:20PMRe: Comment on "An Open Letter to the Leadership of the Mormon Church" , from postmormon.org site.
I second that--beautifully stated. Thank you. So clear and concise.
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Posted by: Way Out ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 02:09PMRe: Comment on "An Open Letter to the Leadership of the Mormon Church" , from postmormon.org site.
I've been thinking more about what you said and remembered the verse from LDS scripture saying something like, 'Wo unto them who call good, evil and evil, good.'
TSCC does bad things-- reprehensibly immoral things in many cases, and then tells its members how wrong it is to call evil good and vice versa. And through it all, TSCC, of course, is to be considered good. So it really screws with the inner conscience of people who try to reconcile what they're experiencing in the church to what they feel is right. It all results in some major compartmentalization of the brain in TBMs. That's the only way to keep the cognitive dissonance at bay (edit: and still remain a TBM).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2010 02:09PM by Way Out.
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Posted by: Way Out ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 02:14PMRe: Comment on "An Open Letter to the Leadership of the Mormon Church" , from postmormon.org site.
It is a great feeling to be free from the dissonance, isn't it? I was amazed, in my case, once I knew for myself that it was all a crock of fecal matter at how easy it was to stand up for what I wanted for my life.
"What? You think I should reconsider my decision to leave the church? And I should listen to you because........???"
(this was meant as a response to Ishmael's longer post further down the line here...posted here by accident)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2010 02:16PM by Way Out.
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Posted by: 2nd Class Citizen ( )
Date: October 18, 2010 11:27PMOne of the best reads in ages
thank you for the link...that letter hit home so many, many times. especially hardhitting was the paragraph about lying to one's family:
"I lie because telling the truth is more painful than a comforting lie. And I learned to lie from [the church]."
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Posted by: another guy ( )
Date: October 18, 2010 11:48PMRe: Comment on "An Open Letter to the Leadership of the Mormon Church" , from postmormon.org site.
The 'general authorities' don't care about this letter, or the man who wrote it. They likely laughed when they read it, because as a faithful apostate, he's still paying his tithing (his wife will make sure of that).
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Posted by: XX-Man ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 11:44AMTopping to get more feedback, correct link is .....
http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/pomopedia/An_Open_Letter_to_the_Leadership_of_the_Mormon_Church/Options: Reply•Quote
Posted by: vhainya ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 01:29PMI really love this letter.
It wasn't originally on Craigslist. I read it before 2009. I think it was on this site first, but I'm not positive.
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Posted by: Res Ipsa Loquitur ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 01:43PMRe: Comment on "An Open Letter to the Leadership of the Mormon Church" , from postmormon.org site.
Holy cow, I could have written this letter. I felt this way for years before escaping from the church, and frankly from theism generally.
“If you wish to strive for peace of soul and happiness, then believe; if you wish to be a disciple of truth, then inquire.” Nietzche.
Truth or happiness. Never both.
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Posted by: BadGirl ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 02:00PMI disagree with that
Some of us find true happiness living with the questions, and there's nothing that makes me happier than truth acknowledged.
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Posted by: Ishmael ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 01:44PMRe: Comment on "An Open Letter to the Leadership of the Mormon Church" , from postmormon.org site.
I made the choice to stay in church for a long time, undercutting my integrity for years on end. I am responsible for the choices that I made, and I know why I made them. I also allowed myself considerable dishonesty in other areas of life: work and relationships, in particular--anything to "keep peace" and not rock any boats.
Your amazing sentence, "When you preach freedom and agency and then use social pressure to nullify that freedom, rather than respect individual choices, terrible things happen in the psyche," cuts to the core of my actions and reveals the damaged psyche. I embraced "social pressure" to avoid being my true self. To make matters worse, I enmeshed myself in a culture that categorically rejects that true self, so the lie drove in deep.
After I resigned, it took a while for the pattern of honesty to ripple outward through the other spheres of my life, and now I am able to speak my truth without concern for the consequences of it. The psyche heals.
You paid a high price for your honesty and your wisdom. Like you, I could not have acted with integrity once I had truly accepted myself and began living in truth and remained counted as a member. However, I live in the Morridor and know many who choose to remain affiliated.
I know what it is like to create a sphere of impenetrable truth deep inside and keep it whole and private. I know what it is like to have that orb of truth inside and to speak and act against it, for outward reasons. My inner truth was a private oasis; it was also a prison I chose to make inside myself. No one knew the core me, and I was fine with that.
When the protective bubble popped, the integrity began to spread within me, and I began to act on it. The internal dissonance is gone. I can be honest, direct, passionate, strong.
People are works in progress; we are all on our unique journeys. Do I count wasted years? No. They were lived years, just like all the rest. Just years in which I was not manifesting the fullness of my being with integrity. Disaffiliating with Mormondom was a huge step in that process--in my personal journey.
How do I think and act in this moment, in This Now? That is the question I now try to live.
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Posted by: mcarp ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 02:32PMRe: Comment on "An Open Letter to the Leadership of the Mormon Church" , from postmormon.org site.
I could have written that letter. (I didn't, but it pretty much expresses right where I am today.)
My wife says that it is my choice if I want to leave the church, but when I draft a letter she cries for days. The mental gymnastics of lying about how I feel about the church have left me exhausted and depressed.
I think he's right -- the church will implode and collapse from the inside. The current youth retention rate is approaching the convert retention rates in Latin America.
There are probably 10-20 members in every ward who are fulfilling callings and doing a ton of work to support the church who would leave in a flash if it weren't for the social/family pressures. There will come a tipping point where they say, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more" and when they say that and cause a domino effect on others, the church (outside of Utah) will implode.
So, I continue to pretend I'm active, but in the mean time, I come here to vent and I search out others like myself in my ward and stake. I'm recruiting for the devil and I plant seeds of doubt and hope that I can escape. Someday.
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****** ** ** ****** ******** ** Enter code: I know this must be a huge issue for so many and I certainly can understand those who stay in the church and "under the radar" for the time. I commend those who have taken the very painful and difficult step to "come out" and say and acknowledge to others what are the obvious truths concerning Mormonism.........this will cause quite significant changes and ramifications in ones life and much of it is something that is very difficult to go through. Everyone is different and has their own unique perspective as to how this affects them so it is quite understandable that there are many different courses of action that can be taken as a result. In the end we all just want to be happy with our lives and the continuing to live what we very much feel is a ly is very difficult to do in helping to achieve that. Best of luck to all those going through this turmoil.