Hear me out. Myocarditis and tinnitus seem to be the severest credible side effects of the vaccine that occur often enough that you need to be worried about them, and you’re still statistically unlikely to get them. K. Now consider that about 90% of the people dying in ICUs are unvaccinated and almost everyone begs for the vaccine before they croak. The vaccine works. Whatever its flaws, it seems to prevent most hospitalization and death. No one controls how COVID is going to mutate next.

The delta variant is nastier than the alpha, but people aren’t dropping dead like they were in the first wave because people are forming an immunity between getting the virus and getting the vaccine. So what have you against considering the jab? Most of you claiming physical ailments would actually be fine and nobody’s religious beliefs actually say that their higher power is angered by vaccinations. Even the Jehovah’s Witnesses and their aversion to blood transfusions view vaccines as the only sane thing to do.

So then you’re only left with the fear of government expanding its reach and using this incident as some kind of tyrannical power grab. Brothers and sisters, refusing to get vaccinated allows the death toll to keep rising which gives the government the biggest excuse it ever needed to expand its reach and grab power. If we all got vaccinated and the death toll came to a virtual halt, then there would be no pretext anymore and if the government was still up to funny business it would be easier to recognize it as such and unite against them and hold them accountable.

A lot of people think they’re playing eleven-dimensional chess when they’re really just putting themselves at higher risk and forcing the government to transform into a helicopter parent state because Americans apparently can’t be trusted not to eat lead paint chips. The protests happening around the world are because people are realizing that the virus has already become endemic and that lockdowns don’t matter anymore. We missed our shot to prevent this thing from becoming a perennial disease. Well, had we succeeded this global effort would have been an unprecedented success. It was a long shot, but we dared to think maybe we could beat a global pandemic. There was a chance though. It would have required the heroism of every last eligible man and woman, though. The people out there in other countries are not protesting because they share America’s worst fever dreams about the Plandemic. They just wanna go back to normal as much as COVID-19 will allow it.

Guys, we locked down to save lives. We cut checks and did generous unemployment because the disruption of jobs was unfair. We rushed the vaccines out as fast as we safely could so that we could go back to normal. The whole world was on the same page except for a large part of this one, the most spoiled nation on the planet in some ways. This was not a communist long game. Please stop eating paint chips on your favorite part of the internet and come back to reality with the rest of us. Because the fact that so many people are so unreasonable gives the government all the pretexts they need to be overbearing in many of the ways you feared. You’re fulfilling your own worst nightmares just by refusing to be reasonable people with a modestly accurate education about how the world around you works.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2021 11:19AM by Cold-Dodger.

You know that feeling you get when everyone around you seems to be anti-gun but you know the truth about what the second amendment says — “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED”. That’s what it feels like to be educated. You like that feeling, right? You can feel it all the time if tweak your epistemology a little bit.

Start with guns for example. There’s actually no conspiracy to take all the guns. It’s not possible. There are too many. There are are a lot of problems that come from living in a society awash with so many guns and people who thought maybe they could prevent a few more from getting out into the streets, but it always backfires. You’d think these “gun grabbing” masterminds would realize the flaw in their politics is that anyone can walk down to Sportsman’s Warehouse and buy a new gun and lots of ammo.

These conspiracy theories make their strawman opposition sound so calculating evil and then they end up being dumber than a gun happy hillbilly who knows how a debit card works. The simpler truth is that gun manufacturers and vendors love it when a gun bill is snaking its way through congress because they see dollar signs. They know how to inflame the ancient prejudices and fears of this nation to make them buy their wares.

Occam’s razor is a bitch, a cold clear-minded bitch with 20/20 vision. The simplest explanation that explains the evidence with the fewest liberties is often enough the right one that we can lay it down as a rule. When you possess a truth and the rest of the world seems united against your senses, maybe you’re not getting a God’s eye view of all there is to know and maybe that would help you realize where your presumptions about the thoughts and intentions of others are mistaken. You’d have to be open-minded though. You’d have to ask questions. You’d have to learn how to use the best facts to get the best answers. You’d have to be willing to let your most passionate biases go when everything you learn contradicts it. You may even have to accept that your closest relationships in the world are too bigoted against the truth to save.

That’s the true cost of knowing the truth, and I’ve paid it. I wish more people would. I’m not talking about transforming into a liberal. I enjoy shooting skeet. But I’m not a maniac who thinks my cute little P-shooters are any sort of threat to the authority of the United States government. The delusions afflicting our time cannot be disentangled from politics. They just can’t be. I don’t want more liberals in the world; I want more people who know how to reason about what reality is.

> . . . what the second amendment says — “SHALL
> NOT BE INFRINGED”.

Do you really think we can understand the amendment with the predicate alone? The subject doesn't matter?

Here's the full amendment:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

The original intent of the amendment was to prevent the federal government from taking weapons away from "well regulated militias." What were the militias at the time the constitution was adopted? State forces that were eventually renamed the states' National Guards.

Note also that the entities with the weapons were to be "well regulated," not completely decentralized. Those caveats were taken at face value until 2008, when the supreme court overturned two centuries' jurisprudence and decided to ignore 13 of the amendment's 27 words--and you are even more economical, reducing the right to a mere four words.

More important, given what's happening in Washington now, it's worth remembering that what the supremes give, the supremes can take away. One day a court with greater fidelity to the constitution and the principle of stare decisis may insist on the original meaning and you'll find your blanket assertion seriously "infringed"--as the founders intended.

Predicates are predicated on subjects. Words have meanings.

On top of which, there are still a great many arms that we, the common citizens, are not allowed to bear.

Some can only be purchased by police departments, like flash grenades and CS grenades. I don't think even police departments can acquire shrapnel grenades and land mines. No civilians can buy RPGs or tanks or howitzers.

All of these items are "arms". They are made by arms manufacturers, sold by arms dealers, are stored in armories. and used by the armed forces. They are arms. Our right to own them is seriously infringed - basically non-existent.

So there's a line that has been drawn, which kind of ruins the argument that no line is allowed. The question now is where can the line be altered?

Well said on all fronts. I use your argument on the gun conspiracy all the time. There is no conspiracy to take guns because it can't be done.

"Myocarditis and tinnitus seem to be the severest credible side effects of the vaccine that occur often enough that you need to be worried about them."

I haven't heard or read anywhere that these side effects occur "often enough that you need to be worried about them". Rather, myocarditis is stated to be a "rare" side effect and tinnitus a "very rare" side effect.

An important point to consider is that both those conditions, myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) and tinnitis (ringing or noise within the ear) can also occur with COVID-19 infection.

They can be treated whether caused by the vaccine (rare/very rare) or the virus.

So, I don't see that as a credible or reasonable excuse to avoid being vaccinated.

CD said: "Even the Jehovah’s Witnesses and their aversion to blood transfusions view vaccines as the only sane thing to do."

Very good point.

Here's a list of the religions which *do* prohibit vaccines (from Vanderbilt site):

https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion


The following denominations do have a theological objection to vaccination:

*Dutch Reformed Congregations - This denomination has a tradition of declining immunizations. Some members decline vaccination on the basis that it interferes with divine providence. However, others within the faith accept immunization as a gift from God to be used with gratitude.

*Faith healing denominations including:
Faith Tabernacle
Church of the First Born
Faith Assembly
End Time Ministrie


Interestingly: "Church of Christ, Scientist - One of the basic teachings of this denomination is that disease can be cured or prevented by focused prayer and members will often request exemptions when available. However, there are not strict rules against vaccination and members can receive required vaccinations."


There was a Church of Christ, Scientist across the street from where I lived as a kid. It implanted in my head the idea that Jesus believed in science (and that he was a scientist - I've always tended to take things exceptionally literally). I laugh at my young self now but it did have a huge impact on my ideas. I had always been interested in science and especially medicine. My parents inspired and encouraged that interest by buying me countless books about famous discoveries and people in those fields. I've often wondered if this one idea prompted all my religious experimentation (JWs, LDS & other more mainstream groups).

To this day I get that church mixed up with Scientology. Here's what Vanderbilt says about Scientology:

"Scientology: in an interview for BeliefNet, Rev. John Carmichael of the Church of Scientology stated that there are no precepts or strictures about vaccinations within Scientology."


Mormonism is mentioned in the list of Christian denominations that advocate taking vaccinations. I had to laugh at the way it's listed:

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints​ (Mormon)"

They can't escape the Mormon tag quite yet. It's a more recognizable term than CoJCoLDS.

The article includes an excerpt from Church News (June 2012) about vaccines:

"Although Church leaders recognized the importance of immunizations more than 30 years ago (read a 1978 First Presidency letter, “Immunize Children, Leaders Urge”), only in the last decade has immunization been a focus of the Church’s Welfare Department." (The LDS article details some immunization initiatives the church has undertaken).

People seem to keep ignoring the point that all the side-effects of the vaccines are both more frequent and more severe with the actual disease. The choice is not between side-effects or blissfully perfect health. It is between side-effects or a fairly high probability of eventually experiencing worse side-effects.

Yes, it's a gamble. So is buying insurance. You may spend money (doing your wallet some damage) and never file a claim. OTOH, the damage caused by a major incident can be catastrophic, which is why most of us have various insurance policies.

And the odds of getting covid dwarf the odds of having an auto accident or a homeowners claim.

Every day I look at the Covid death toll in my state (usually a dozen or more,) and wonder, who are these people? Were they vaccine deniers? Or were they people who could not take the vaccine?

I had strong side effects with my first two doses, but I marched myself off to the pharmacy on Thursday to get my booster shot. I had temporary tinnitus (that was a new side effect for me,) along with fatigue, nausea, etc. It's not fun, but it's what I need to do to stay safe. So I do it.

I think of all of the people in third-world countries who would be so grateful for the vaccine.

What bothers me are the falsehoods. One teacher I know was claiming that there is no Covid vaccine that is fully approved by the FDA. And several of us immediately replied that the Pfizer vaccine is fully approved. Then she went on to claim that there are two Pfizer vaccines, and that the U.S. doesn't have the one that if fully approved. Say, what? I wanted to ask her where she got this nonsense. She was spouting all kinds of nonsense, and she got it from somewhere.