Since I have not had a similar experience after my parents died (was not open to this stuff then), I will not bear any testimony.

This family apparently took it as a sign from heaven.

We unfortunately don't know how large her home property is (looks big with a pasture) but 25 miles seems impressive.

I have been to Ok and noticed there was constantly a wind but I think it was a wind blowing west to east when I visited a number of times.

What do you think?









http://kfor.com/2015/07/08/great-state-balloon-released-at-fathers-grave-flew-25-miles-back-to-his-familys-home/

Ghawd once sent me a message. I'll never forget it...

It was in the early 80s and I was young, single and living large. Fate found me at the Fremont Hotel & casino, in downtown Las Vegas. It was an off hour, I remember that for sure, and the casino was mostly deserted. I seated myself at a blackjack table. The dealer had been standing in his position, alone at the table, at parade rest. Me sitting down spurred him to action and he collected the 'fanned' cards from the table and shuffled and then had me cut. I handed over a $20 bill and got ten $1 chips and two $5 chips.

I lost 11 hands in a row, the final hand being the two $5 chips.

I got up, thanked ghawd for the lesson and haven't played blackjack since. Mostly because I'm cheap and there are no more $1 tables...

So? Was me losing 11 hands in a row a coincidence or was someone or something communicating an important message to me?

I think someone with a math background could come up with the odds of your situation ------ unfortunately I cannot.

We recently went to Vegas and friends won a jackpot on the first or second pull of the slot machine. He went away a winner after a number of pulls and up and down results.

I do believe in coincidences ------ some things just happen. If someone feels better because of it ---great!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2015 08:48PM by spiritist.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ghawd once sent me a message. I'll never forget
> it...
>
> It was in the early 80s and I was young, single
> and living large. Fate found me at the Fremont
> Hotel & casino, in downtown Las Vegas. It was an
> off hour, I remember that for sure, and the casino
> was mostly deserted. I seated myself at a
> blackjack table. The dealer had been standing in
> his position, alone at the table, at parade rest.
> Me sitting down spurred him to action and he
> collected the 'fanned' cards from the table and
> shuffled and then had me cut. I handed over a $20
> bill and got ten $1 chips and two $5 chips.
>
> I lost 11 hands in a row, the final hand being the
> two $5 chips.
>
> I got up, thanked ghawd for the lesson and haven't
> played blackjack since. Mostly because I'm cheap
> and there are no more $1 tables...
>
> So? Was me losing 11 hands in a row a coincidence
> or was someone or something communicating an
> important message to me?


eeewwwwwwwww spooky man. I'm skeered.

I would call it a "fortuity" -- a fortunate coincidence. No need to question good fortune too closely. :)

Got me.
As there's no evidence of it being a "sign from god," making that assumption would be unsupportable.

There's nothing wrong with "I don't know." Which is the case here. This family doesn't know it was a "sign from god." They want it to be, so they say it is. If that does something for them, great -- enjoy. Doesn't mean it's a "sign from god," it just means they wanted it to be.

I suppose we could analyze the typical wind patters, the weather in the area when this occurred, look at the paths of other released balloons, etc. etc. etc. And possibly then clearly show it was "natural" and not "miraculous" at all. I have no desire to do that, as I really don't care about balloons in Oklahoma. I'll just point out that "we can't explain this, so it's a sign from god" is fallacious and rather silly reasoning -- but if that's what they want to do, they can do it. Doesn't harm me. Unless they try to claim this is "evidence for a god" and then push that idea on others.

The whole world is natural and it is the natural that is the glory and majesty! I hate it when people miss this!

Not to keep this going but: When you hear the word "helium," you most likely think of balloons. This is one of the most common uses of the gas. Because it is lighter than air, it can make balloons float easily in the air. However, when the temperature of the helium drops, it becomes heavier, making the balloon sink a bit more. When the helium warms up, it will again float. As the helium slowly leaks from the balloon, the balloon will begin to settle closer to the floor.

The balloons I remember at funerals go up high pretty fast, based on the prevailing wind and temperature. Hard to really observe them but they seem to keep going higher and higher to me for at least 20-30 minutes. Eventually, they probably go down because of temperature and/or lose the gas in them.

Oh well no experts on helium balloons --- I can understand that.

Also, no experts on the odds to have 11 losing hands in black jack ----- I guess there the complication is the dealer goes last and a tie is a win for the dealer so the odds are in the dealers favor ----- but 11 in a row is quite a string.

Seems like the stronger the surface wind the more likely it could travel the 25 miles, stay low and eventually either go very low and catch on something or break ---- it was found on a barb wire fence.

spiritist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not to keep this going but: When you hear the
> word "helium," you most likely think of balloons.
> This is one of the most common uses of the gas.
> Because it is lighter than air, it can make
> balloons float easily in the air. However, when
> the temperature of the helium drops, it becomes
> heavier, making the balloon sink a bit more. When
> the helium warms up, it will again float. As the
> helium slowly leaks from the balloon, the balloon
> will begin to settle closer to the floor.

Um...no. When you put a certain amount of helium into a balloon, that amount of helium has a certain mass. Temperate doesn't affect that mass at all. Hot or cold, it will always weigh the same. The helium in the balloon never gets lighter or heavier, no matter how much the temperature changes.

Temperature *does* affect pressure, in a direct relationship. The higher the temperature, the higher the pressure of the gas. In an expandable (rubber) balloon, if the pressure of the helium goes up, the balloon will expand. If it goes down, it will contract. That won't affect the "lift" one bit, though. The external air pressure, which goes down as the balloon goes up, also affects expansion of the ballon, but inversely. Watch a weather balloon launch sometime -- at launch the balloons look very under-inflated; that's on purpose, because as it rises, external pressure drops, and the balloon expands -- if they weren't under-inflated at launch, they'd expand to the point of bursting before they got to the desired altitude.

And that's what usually happens with "consumer" helium balloons -- they rise, the external pressure decreases, the balloon expands, and it reaches a point it can't be contained by the balloon any longer, and it pops. Then what's left flutters back to earth. Mylar balloons pop at lower altitudes than rubber ones, because they can't expand very much. Rubber ones can expand more before popping, and can go horizontally (depending on winds at altitude) a few miles to thousands of miles before they pop. Assuming they aren't leaking helium, which many due (and the leaks often increase as internal pressure goes up).

My question: if a "god" (or spirit or whatever) can alter physics in the real universe to direct a balloon to a certain spot, as the people in the article think, then why wouldn't it just do something more "obvious" as a "sign?" Something that *doesn't* happen normally with balloons, like what happened in this story? Why be ambiguous, sly, and leave the "sign" open to "interpretation?" If the being (or whatever) they think is manipulating the balloon's path in space simply made the balloon fly directly to their house and hover in front of the main window, doing a little dance (something balloons don't normally do), that would be a lot more clear of a "sign." But that's not what we get -- we get things that normally happen to balloons, and that have no "supernatural" evidence behind the event of any kind. Yet the claim is still made that it was supernaturally directed. Why?

I think people really want to believe in God (someone watching over them) and an after life and that there is something more especially those grieving a lost/passed one.

Most books/stories/movies 'man' produces end with a happy ending ------ why not life having a happy ending by not ending or by ending happily?

Seems like there is something in 'us' or our imagination, etc. is a driver of what 'man' produces as far as happy endings.

Of course, you know my beliefs, so I am not really looking for a helium balloon from my parents or passed friends and relatives ----- I believe I have had much better access than that. But for people who may say we believe in God/afterlife, etc. without any 'experiences' they may need the balloons or balloon stories.

I would hope these people eventually, before they die, get better evidence and/or experiences but one has to start somewhere.

spiritist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think people really want to believe in God
> (someone watching over them) and an after life and
> that there is something more especially those
> grieving a lost/passed one.

*Some* people. Not all.
And even many that may "want" to believe such things still don't, for lack of evidence.

Another "Jesus on a piece of toast" miracle.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another "Jesus on a piece of toast" miracle.


Yep.... and while we're on the subject of wanna be miracles,

you know what Atheists see on their toast?

NOTHING.

I'd be much more impressed if that balloon was found knocking at the door instead of snagged on a fence ;)

It's too easy to say that it looks impressive but might not be as impressive if we put it in the context of the myriads of people who have suffered excruciating losses and had no such thing happen to them.

But, I certainly can't prove it WASNT a sign from heaven either. People will believe what they will believe. Let them be if it's harmless enough.

Maybe if the letter had an address on it and some kind soul did take it to that address and leave it for that poor grieving young lady.

JFYI the letter did have a return address and requested anyone finding it alert them.

So this could help explain the 'coincidence' someone did find it and returned it. Maybe leaving it on the front step would be too obvious???

That is a sweet story for the young girl to receive her message back like that, on the wind.

When my mom died, I had no reassurance her spirit was at peace. My stepdad would tell me the times he called after she died that he felt her spirit there with him in their house. He would speak to her as though she was there, and that comforted him.

On the morning he died, it was a Tuesday in February 2003. I didn't learn until later that week on a Thursday that he'd died in their home (natural causes.) Yet that very same Tuesday morning as I was driving to my work I felt my mother's spirit soaring, free at last. She was finally at rest. There was no explanation for that, other than the assurance I'd been waiting for, that was long overdue. Once I heard, two days later, of my stepdad's passing - then it all made sense.

So you're saying your step dad died on a tuesday, and you didn't find out until thursday?

If that's true, sounds like you weren't close at all. I can see how you would resent him for maintaining communication with your mom after she passed, even though you didn't.

Upon finding out about your step dad's death, there could have been some subconcious relief that now you didn't have to deal with a situation in which your mom would only talk to your step dad, and not you.

That relief could easily be superimposed on some good feelings you had on tuesday which your brain decided to remember as "feeling your mom's spirit soaring free" when really let's be honest: is that what you REALLY felt?

Doubtful. More likely your brain was upset that your stepdad talked to your mom, when you found out he died you were relieved that there was no more spiritual competition, and your brain did the rest.

But what do I know?

Your "theory" is about as weird as it gets.

Even trying to decipher what you just wrote reads more like nonsense and gobbledygook than anything based on reason or logic.

You don't know me, my mother, or my stepfather.

Why would I resent any communications he had with her? She wasn't my wife! She was my mother, who I'd kept in touch with until she died more than two years prior to my stepdad's passing.

If you have any reading comprehension at all, which it sounds like you don't, what I said before I'll say it again. My mother died.. I didn't have any sense of assurance her spirit was at rest for more than two long years. If anything all I felt was static, and that her spirit was not at peace... until the same morning and about the same time my stepfather died unexpectedly in his home.

His body was found two days later by one of his children.

The morning he died, unbeknownst to me or any of our family, at approximately the same time in a two hour time zone difference, on my way to work - I felt my mother's spirit was soaring by me and above me as I drove my car past the street where I live. I felt her coming to me to let me know she was at last happy, at peace, and at rest. Her spirit was free, and going to its eternal rest.

Now, what didn't you understand?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2015 01:24PM by amyjo.

A lot. But like I said, what do I know? :)

Not much. :(

Too right. I don't know much.

That's why I'm hesitant to pretend that very mundane feelings equate to supernatural events like spirits being emancipated from some unseen bondage.

But if you'd care to share the actual bare-bones details of your experience (which I'm sure you won't) then we can all better understand how you're building a bridge from your experience to the idea that humans live after death, they can be bound, then freed, then communicate that to material beings like yourself, etc.

Care to share?

You are someone who doesn't really understand much about life, let alone death.

You obviously don't respect other people's experiences, or beliefs.

I shared a personal experience here that relates to the OP. I don't owe you any explanation. Having given you the dignity of any response, it is obvious you have no intention of conversing, other than being antagonistic to what I've shared, because you don't believe in life after death.

If you want to start your own topic to debate your ideas on something, wail away. I'm not interested in your belittling or your beliefs.

Nor does your recalcitrance take away one iota from the experience I shared of my mother. But again, you wouldn't understand.

Probably all true :)

Can't help but notice that you're clearly avoiding sharing any details, and I recommend you explore that fear you feel when challenged. Facing that fear and letting the cards fall where they may... that's what brought most of us here.

Best of luck!

Well, let's see: A little research on username "kolobian," and no sooner did I find some of your posts that I found the following excerpt dated March 16, 2015 where you write, which basically sums up your 'approach' on how you debate, which makes you about as easy to read as an algae in a petri dish. Thus, not all that hard to figure out ie., you are simply messing with me, and others who don't share your views.

"Kolobian:
'Easiest way to counter [a person's] testimony is to press for a detailed account of the experience. They never share, saying it's too sacred. I counter with, "I don't think it's too sacred; I think that you know that the experience itself is not sufficient to bridge the gap between belief and knowledge. That's why you won't share.'"
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1538923,1539333#msg-1539333

Which brings me back to your query here of me, which is a paraphrase of the above: "But if you'd care to share the actual bare-bones details of your experience (which I'm sure you won't) then we can all better understand how you're building a bridge from your experience to the idea that humans live after death, they can be bound, then freed, then communicate that to material beings like yourself, etc.
Care to share?"

You are easier to understand than that algae in the petri dish, kolobian!

My, my, the webs some people weave. You are paraphrasing yourself over and over again apparently and that is your whole logic on what you perceive to be faith - here whether I felt my mother's spirit go to her eternal resting place. Versus someone sharing their testimony. Feeling her spirit leaving this earth plane on the day my stepfather died, is an entirely different subject from whether someone believes in their religion.

Hence, they really aren't the same subject matter, nor does the one have to do with faith. What they do have in common is someone sharing from their personal perspective. Mine, more specifically based on a personal experience, which was shared in as full a detail here with others as is possible to share. Despite your pressing for *more.* You don't want more information than what I've already given, you just want to attack someone's belief in the unseen in order to wage a personal affront against any and all belief systems in life after life or faith in the unseen.

And, ad libbing from a rote rehearsed script, I might add. Not much thought goes into your processes, after all, kolobian. You merely argue for argument sake, and making ad hominem attacks that are well rehearsed (see above.)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2015 05:24AM by amyjo.

I think you used a bunch of words to point out that I'm consistent, which is a good thing, and to filibuster as well, which is a bad thing.

There is no difference between your testimony of this spirit emancipation experience vs. the praying about the book of mormon experience.

But I understand why that makes you uncomfortable. It's all good!

That's pretty cool.

No miracle needed. Someone brought the message back to their property before they got home. Maybe the Mom even planned the whole thing in advance so the daughter would be comforted. Parents do things like that if they think it will benefit their children.

STOP POINTING OUT ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE!!!

I think it is interesting that the town they lived in (where it landed) is called Cement. Really? Couldn't come up with a better name? Well it is a good name for balloons landing.

I found one of those once, complete with heartfelt messages for the departed. It was stuck in a mesquite tree in the middle of nowhere. Makes me wonder what gawd thought of that dude.

This happened in the Mormon Tabernacle, at a funeral of a member of the First Presidency. During the final "Amen" of the closing prayer, a powerful gust of wind blew open both doors at the front of the tabernacle, and swooshed through, past the casket, tipping over some flower stands It was quite dramatic! Most of the Mormon family thought it was their deceased presidency member's spirit, leaving the building.

Reminds me of the time the "Lord's Spirit" ripped the doors right off the Tabernacle. Oh, wait, that was a tornado that also shattered the windows at the North Visitor Center and uprooted many trees on Temple Square.

By the way, you have a great nickname for telling stories about moving air!

: )