I get the obvious answers like "keeping track" but is it really just that?
I always grew up hearing that the lord has to have everything in order. I would think being an omnipotent being and all that can't be the case but it seriously bothers me why they worry so much about making sure attendance is done and making sure someone is counting everyone in sacrament meeting.
Holy Carp and SII are right about budget disbursements, but it transcends that.
It's a control mechanism. Ward leaders know they required to report attendance. And they generally want to move up in the food chain.
As they know what is being measured, they are going to do all they can to look good to their stake bosses (and stake leaders to the regional bosses). So they will drive up attendance.
And that results in more tithing and more engrandizement for the cult.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2015 10:04PM by left4good.
Ain't every last iota in the cult ALWAYS about $$$$$??? So if you ever have a cult question just pump in the dollar sign $$$$ and you will have your answer.
One of the cult rules that shout the loudest about where its priorities lie is the rules of getting into their Temple-Country-Club where you MUST make out a check ($$$$), buy or rent ($$$$) a special clown costume complete with new white slippers, use ($$$$) money to be able to take some time off to be in said temple along with baby-sitter payment, gas, and wear and tear on car or taxi or bus fare.
Oh, and the cult would like you to attend said country club at least once a month or more often if possible.
Sucks for my ward then. I'm a Sunday school teacher right now, I take the lessons and do anything to make the lessons as vanilla as possible without having to spout lots of the BS (still got to keep up appearances till I'm ready to announce how I feel about TSCC).
They have decided that I need to be stuck with all the teenagers (yes 12-18 year olds) as the other teachers haven't been showing up. So I just jot down a couple names here and there since I don't know have the kids and don't want to spend 20 minutes taking attendance.
Speaking of getting slammed with all the kids I'm about to ask to get released. I'm sure I'll get thrown on the radar.
And as the day follows the night, the connection between ward attendance and money from SLC means that wards hype their numbers. Some of ex-mos who have been ward clerk types have told us some of the gimmicks used.
The only numbers that very reported to SLC are sacrament attendance (thus is the only number that affects budgets). Only the average number for March, June, September, December.
Home teaching, visiting teaching, number of YW/YM attending, primary attendance. And some other numbers that should be calculated automatically but are not.
See that's what I was under the impression, only sacrament was actually truly tallied. I don't get the whole needing to know who and who didn't do HT and VT. I get so they can make the people not feeling guilty but it seemed to me there always had to be more to it than that.
Other than sending a tally to SLC, I think they take roll to keep people from skipping meetings. It guilts you into going every week because you know you're going to get a call or a visit from someone if you miss too often. It's a way they control their people. There were times I felt like I had to have a ready excuse as to why I missed Sunday School twice in a row.
They treat everyone like children and make sure you are where you're supposed to be.
Sacrament meeting was the easiest to skip for me. It was less likely to be noticed that I wasn't there. I don't think they have the time to write down who is and isn't there, they just make a count. For Sunday School and the others, they have a role and check you off. (I'm assuming they still do that now, I haven't been in 20 years.)
Yeah I dunno I haven't been to priesthood in this ward (outside the combined opening excel isles/this is what everyone is doing this week meeting) in months. No one has bothered to ask me why not or anything. Guess I should consider myself lucky.
I'm pretty sure that I was taught that there will be books of records opened up in the next life, and god will see how active we were. Yep, he will go through the primary roll books to see if we were in class.
It is kind of weird; this all powerful god needs to go through earth records to see if we were at his church.
Counting and keeping track gets folks involved without really having to do anything. It keeps the concentration on numbers rather than asking questions.
Most organizations want to know numbers but few are as anal as Mormonism and Hitlers Germany.
I grew up in a culture like that; from school to army... And the worst thing was that almost never knew what was up with absent people. And in the Church here it was so creepy, it was usually performed by older weirdo looking man.....
they take roll to give the beaurocracy a sense of power.
only a few numbers are reported quarterly. those numbers are used to calculate the disbursement of funds from the next higher orginizational level. (ward funds are dispersed from the stake, stake funds from the region etc...)
Please correct me if I am wrong but I heard that when they count during sacrament it is $2 per person sitting in a chair. They forward the numbers quarterly to Salt Lake and that gives their budget so if more people attended the budget is higher then when less people attended. By us leaving (Hubby, kids and me) they are missing out on 5x $2 =$10. :)
geezerdogmom sorry to hear what they did to you. I could write you pages after pages about how cruel some lds members behaved in church to other members. Here is one example. About 20 years ago when I was 15 or 16 years old. A woman lets call her "Jane" gave birth to an disabled child and she had ward members tell her that her son was disabled due to her sinning in the pre existence. What was worse is that those members would not allow their kids to play with her kid. LDS church is a scam and is hurting many of its on members with their own narrow way of thinking. It was very difficult for me to fit in the Mormon mold. Actually you are worth $8 per year :)!!!!!!! $2 per quarter!!!! Let's rejoice in our value lol
When I was a ward clerk, years ago, I was told to be as accurate as possible because what we recorded here is recorded in Heaven. How's that for pressure?
We have sign in sheets that serve a variety of purposes. It's a way to capture the contact info of visitors and new people. It's a way to find out if a regular attender has stopped attending (and is lying on the floor of their bathroom with a broken hip, true story). All the attendance info is entered into Powerchurch. When someone drops off the face of the earth, one of the pastors calls to see what's up. The pastors track the weekly total attendance, and if it starts to fall, THEY TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY'RE DOING WRONG. The congregation is never blamed for choosing not to go to church.
We actually pay a fee to our denomination for each member, called the Per Capita.
Plus, there is a card in the sign in folder advertising upcoming events in the church, like Bible studies, jazz concerts, VBS, etc.
I don't really see anything sinister in this. All organizations need to know what their numbers are so they can make necessary adjustments. What is sinister is SLC knows these numbers and doesn't publish them.
I used to be the ward clerk and would sometimes substitute for the membership clerk in counting sacrament meeting attendance.
Every time I turned in my count, the bishop or one of his counselors would add 20-30 to my number. They would say something like, "That's to account for the kids rolling on the floor or people in the halls or bathroom that may have been missed." Such liars.
They beefed up the numbers probably to get a larger budget and to avoid getting chewed out by the stake presidency.
When I was a young Aaronic Priesthood holder I was called to be secretary of my quorum. The bishop's counselor told me at that time that the attendance records I kept would be used on judgment day to determine the worthiness of those being judged. Even back then that concept seemed weird (can't an infinite God keep his own records?). Now, it seems more like b.s. nonsense to guilt me into being careful at my job.