More "coming clean" by the LDS Church. This one is about Joseph's use of the seer/peep stone. Look for this article to appear in the October 2015 Ensign.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2015/10/joseph-the-seer?lang=eng

This is a fairly revealing article and actually mentions Joseph putting a seer stone in his hat to translate th Book of Mormon. Three questions we have:

1) The article shows several images of the 'incorrect' methods shown in the past where Joseph was depicted translating the BofM without using a stone and a hat. They mention the 'stone in the hat' method in the article but why are they still not showing a correct image of Joseph using the stone in the hat? Why do they only go halfway in their disclosure?

2) The article has several paragraphs discussing what happened to the original seer stone. They conclude with "Since that time (Brigham Young's time), subsequent Church leaders have acknowledged the Church’s ownership of the seer stone." However, why don't they simply say the Church has it now and how it is used or not used by the leaders of the Church instead of quoting from Brigham Young's time?

3) There is no discussion as to how this ordinary stone (found on Willard Chase's property when Joseph and Hyrum Smith were digging a well for Mr. Chase) had some sort of supernatural seering ability? This stone was not one of the original special stones preserved in the Stone Box by the Nephites for 2,000 years, so why would it work to translate ancient records from one language to another? Does it still work today? Members of the church might want to know this. The information presented in the article is new to many members, as it was not commonly or officially ever taught to the church membership before now, and does create some problematic challenges to the foundational claims of the church that we were all taught in Sunday School. The church should discuss this in more depth.

We think that members would be very interested in hearing more about where this stone is today and actually seeing this important artifact in a LDS museum. Without showing images of Joseph translating using the seer stone in a hat, discussing how it came to be and why it had seering abilities, nor discussing it's current status & potential use by the current leaders and also by not publicly displaying it in a visitor's center or other church BLDG, we must conclude that the church is still somewhat embarrassed by it.

It would be fun to foment a rumor that, like Excalibur was to the English throne, so, too, is the seer stone, i.e.,only a true prophet of ghawd can use the stone's power.

After all, we have the Anton manuscript, so let's see what those characters mean!

Ooh I like the way you think!

The rock in the hat was one of my first big clues that the whole thing was bullsh1t. God giving Joe some kind of divine iPad to translate is crazy sounding but at least consistent with the idea that God is far beyond mankind.

Putting a rock in a hat on the other hand is something only a con-man would do in the 1800's. There is no viable explanation for why the man would put a rock in his hat to translate. It may be the dumbest thing to come out of Joe's back of con artist tricks, and I cant believe 18th century people were that dumb, let alone that people will read that article in 2015 and go "hmm, makes sense to me".

Now I'm wondering why JS and Oliver didn't think to just sit in a darkened room and watch TV on the stone!

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now I'm wondering why JS and Oliver didn't think
> to just sit in a darkened room and watch TV on the
> stone!

Nobody had written "Game of Thrones" yet. Obviously. :)

Joe probably watched porn on it. Weird, Kolobian, porn.

Is this considered to be one of the essays per chance? I do with they mentioned where he got this particular seer stone though, glad mormonthinker gave some context on it.

Anyone know what kind of rock it is by chance? It looks to me to be a sandstone of some sort, but Im not sure.

just something about the grain pattern.

I think it looks like a Lake Superior Agate.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1569989,1569989#msg-1569989



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2015 04:18PM by steve benson.

I find it very interesting that they are publishing this as a preview of the October Ensign. I have never seen them do something like this before, which makes me wonder, why now? And does this publishing of a preview mean the whole issue will have a focus on these types of issues?

The Smith's borrowed the stone then refused to return it when its rightful owner ask for it back:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willard_Chase#Seer_stone_discovery_and_dispute

Take your pick! Which one of these is the magic stone?

https://nwgeology.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/beach-at-point-whitehorn-mark.jpg

I like that, a play on the "Where's Waldo" theme.

Per Russ Nelson (mere mortal with no special powers):

The plates often lay on the table without any attempt at concealment, wrapped in a small linen tablecloth, which I had given him to fold them in. I once felt of the plates as they thus lay on the table, tracing their outline and shape. They seemed to be pliable like thick paper, and would rustle with a metallic sound when the edges were moved by the thumb, as one does sometimes thumb the edges of a book.” (“Last Testimony of Sister Emma,” Saints’ Herald, 1 Oct. 1879, p. 290; spelling modernized.)

So the plates were on the table with no attempt to hide them yet they were wrapped in a cloth. Emma never removed the cloth so she could see the damn things with her own two human eyes. So she traced them with her fingers presumably while alone in the room but wouldn't remove the damn cloth to take a peek - oh Gawd save me from the insanity of these ridiculous Smiths!

Source: https://www.lds.org/ensign/1993/07/a-treasured-testament?lang=eng



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2015 10:05PM by tamboruco.

She was told she would be struck dead if she looked at them.
She was also told the same thing if she didn't go along with Joe having a gaggle of girlfriends.

Apparently she believed him.

Is it just me or does that thing kinda look like a Lamanites testicle?

I'm being a bit dense, but here on RfM, I've read stone in hat as a viable theory, and JS and (Cowdery?) made it up as another theory.

Are both viable possibilities? Any others?

Thanks for your time.

unless you think Joe could really translate with a rock in his hat.

If Joe and his buddies wrote the BOM (plagiarizing from various sources really), but wanted others to think that it was really coming from gold plates, they might well cook up an act to make it appear that he was translating. In that case, Joe would put his seer stone in his hat and spout off some passages he had memorized while Ollie wrote it down.

Remember Joe used his seer stone to look for buried treasure. And consider that quite a few of his neighbors believed in folk magic, so Joe's use of the seer stone would not have been that bizarre to the people he was trying to fool.

Grant Palmer saw it, and didn't Michael Quin? Mr. Palmer described it during an interview.

When is Quin's New book coming out? Who is publishing it?

Did the stone tell Smith to try to sell the BoM in Canada? Sponge Bob had a talking conch shell once...

How can Mormons not see that this whole stone in a hat is just plain freaking GOOFY!

Let the gaslighting begin!

I rarely venture into Facebook anymore but wanted to see if the LDS people on my feed would post anything about the stone. There was nothing.

So, I went to John Dehlin's FB page and while the majority of posts were ripping the church a new one, there were at least 2 posts saying, "I've always known about this."

Unfortunately, I think we'll be seeing a number of members racing to be the most faithful by saying they were always aware (you dummies that weren't as faithful and smart) and it's only done more to strengthen their faith.

Some of this gas lighters will definitely be relatives of mine.

I had my wife read the article, she was quiet afterwards, I tried to press her how she felt about it but all she said was that church history was something she never really knew much about. I think she was a little surprised though.

scrying

The magic peepstone is real.

Joeseph Smith is not.

The Ensign article is looking like something out of a Watch Tower pamphlet - with as much lack of believability.

Lets not forget that Joseph Smith used the same tactics to defraud his neighbors by claiming to find buried treasure with a seer stone. It was considered fraud in his time to pretend to have a talent and offer that talent for payment.

If you are asked if you have seen the video, "Meet the Mormons," ask if you can see it on your peep stone.

Following up on isthechurchtrue's excellent point.

Let's see if Tom Monson can use it to find other buried treasures. Methinks he can try, but they'll slip away into the depths of the earth again--just like for Joseph Smith. LDS, Inc. will need a new revenue stream as it continues to lose members.

This is international news.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/05/revealed-the-stone-that-translated-the-book-of-mormon

This is truly amazing. I'm still trying to get my head around the thought process.

As far as I can gather, they're releasing these pictures to prove to people that they're not lying.

Hang on, I'll try that again.

They're releasing photos to prove the existence of something they always denied the existence of, to prove they're not lying.

Um...

Or is to stop people leaving the church? That's mentioned in the Guardian article. But I thought most people in the church didn't know about the peep stone, and still believed in the urim and thummim? How is this going to help?

Trying to understand the logic of this is giving me an insight into what it might be like to be high.

Did anyone notice the Ensign article blames the artists for putting out false teachings about how the BOM was supposedly translated?

They title each pic with "Artist’s depiction", "Artist's portrayal", "Artist's rendition".

We, the mormon cult, didn't deceive you.
It was those damn lying artists. Pooh on them!

What lying sacks of shit, are the "leadership" of the mormon cult!