This great question was posed by dydimus in the "Under the Banner of Heaven" thread, quoted here:

DYDIMUS:

See that's what I felt the author was going for. The unique "Magic/Mystical" beginnings of Mormonism and how they could be carried through. The problem is that it's roots may be the same, but the branches now are truly totally different (just as Orthodox, Roman Catholicism can't be compared to the Snake Holders/Pentacostals even though they have the same scripture and worship the same deity).

When did the Magic go away? I mean John Taylor was still talking to Jesus, Joseph F Smith and Wilford Woodruff were... Brigham Young didn't or at least I never found any visions or prophecies of his. So was it when the corporation stopped polygamy???
--------

I remember when the magic died for me. It was when Spencer W. Kimball's apoplectic ban on BYU oral sex was extended to married Mormons, then hastily withdrawn in a "thus sayeth not the Lord" move by the Lord's public relation experts.

The grave of the magic was formally marked with a death date when that same phony prophet decided to give an entire formerly "marked" race of men the priesthood --against Brigham Young's prophecy that every white and brown guy who ever lived would get it before the first black man.... THEN, as if that wasn't enough, Kimball refused to let the church use the word "Revelation" and called the lifting of the ban just an administrative action.

When did the magic die for you?


Kathleen

What magic?

Being mormon was never magical for me; it was just there and once I gave up the idea that I could become a ghawd (given that ghawds don't spend a decent measurable time each day looking at girls with great longing and then masturbating about it), I was just going through the motions of the only way I knew how to be.

Having the idea arise in my mind that there was no Prime Mover keeping a tally of my sins, and then accepting this as my new standard, that was the magical moment of me. Your mileage may vary.

Kimball also removed the office of Patriarch to the Church.

I started to fumble at that point.

Then correlation.

Final straws were when I realized it was a one way street. Members were nothing. People were nothing.

Magic ?

are you talking about the MORmON style hypoxia induced intoxication of being suffocated inside the strangle hold of a MORmON ideological bubble?

There is far more magic in popping that MORmON think bubble and then being able to BREATH and actually LIVE.

Okay, here's some of the magic I'm talking about:
1) Celestial miracles and healings from priesthood blessings.

2) Spiritual/Angelic visitations--We were even trained on how to offer our hands to "test" what kind of visitor was conversing with us.

3) How "Blood Atonement" was a right that many Mormon believers sought since they were convinced that was the only way to gain forgiveness.

4) 3 Nephites, John the Baptist, Cain, etc...

5) Where are the new Scriptures??? Community of Christ is still rolling out D&C Scriptures. Why haven't the Book of Enoch, Nag Hammadi and apocryphal scriptures been retranslated and canonized?

6) Where is the "signs of the end of times" Latter-day teachings and preachings that we used to have??? We had to get our year supplies, we had to get our geneology done, we had to get our Book of Rememberances completed and up to date, etc....

yes indeed.

And then there were the fun times. The roadshows, the dances, the playbackshows... The feeling of being SPECIAL even though outsiders thought we were weird..

We liked being special, because we were 'in on the secret'...

dydimus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, here's some of the magic I'm talking about:
> 1) Celestial miracles and healings from
> priesthood blessings.

OK here is how the MORmON miracle magic really worked out, at least for me.

The use of the word "celestial" in this instance seems very much like the typical use of the word "spiritual", not so sure what the real distinction between a celestial healing and plain regular healing would really be. The MORmON priesthood however definitely turned out to be priestDUD much more than anything of efficacy.


> 2) Spiritual/Angelic visitations--We were even
> trained on how to offer our hands to "test" what
> kind of visitor was conversing with us.

The stupid ass MORmONS did everything they could to falsely convince me that I was going to experience some sort of divine manifestation in the temple endowment. I got molested, stupid miserable underwear, a STUPID secret handshake and had my life threatened instead. what a huge disappointment. I should have quit the church right then.

> 3) How "Blood Atonement" was a right that many
> Mormon believers sought since they were convinced
> that was the only way to gain forgiveness.

Yah, the magic really diminished when it became quite apparent that our family's resident MORmON enforcement agent other wise known as my MORmON male parent was perfectly willing to blood atone me for questioning THE church in any way. Thank goodness that such a move had severe legal penalties.

>
> 4) 3 Nephites, John the Baptist, Cain, etc...

the MORmON general authorities were all the rage in our pathetic MORmON household.
>
> 5) Where are the new Scriptures??? Community of
> Christ is still rolling out D&C Scriptures. Why
> haven't the Book of Enoch, Nag Hammadi and
> apocryphal scriptures been retranslated and
> canonized?
>

what? you are craving another BOok of MORmON ? another Book of Abraham?

> 6) Where is the "signs of the end of times"
> Latter-day teachings and preachings that we used
> to have??? We had to get our year supplies, we
> had to get our geneology done, we had to get our
> Book of Rememberances completed and up to date,
> etc....

Yah, stuff like that blood moon thing ..... the moon would turn to blood !!!! sign of the last days and Jesus's imminent return !!!
what a hopped up farce!!!! nobody in the MORmON idiot /bubble knew exactly how it would happen , but they just could not shut up about it, and they did know that it had to happen however it was going to happen because it was MORmON prophecy. Turns out it had already happened dozens of times through the ages, it was VERY WELL understood how it happens, and that the supposed blood red color is much more like a very pale salmon pink at best, or Not very Red at all. Some of the MORmON idiots that endlessly hyped that one should be punched in the face until there is some veritable blood red color on their face to make up for the total lack of it on the moon at any time, and to allude to / hint at the EXTREME red faced style embarrassment that they should have felt for being so stupid - a sign of the last time I would ever take them seriously again.

If that is the MORmON magic that you miss then you can have it, I do not want any of it !!!!

The MORmONS that I was raised around insisted that the Moon had never turned to blood before, BUT THAT IT WAS GOING TO!!! AND THEY JUST COULD NOT SHUT UP ABOUT IT !!!

In one sense they were correct: the Moon has never turned to blood or blood red for that matter. However "blood moons" -really pale dirty salmon pink/orange at best, have occurred on lots of occasions through the ages, but for some funny reason the stupid ass MORmONS do NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT SO MUCH !!!!!!! MOSTLY BECAUSE MORmONS ARE ASS CLOWNS IDIOTS.



always check the scientific and historical based facts, like; DNA, where Horses really were and were not, who had steel when and who did not, real astronomical information, BEFORE buying into the MORmON ASS CLOWN PROPHECY PARADE, or the MORmONS will make a MORmON ASS CLOWN out of you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ckBQXASrKw

Growing up being a Mormon was cool. Nomo friends would snicker at us but we knew we were special.

The hours of activities that were fun seemed to outnumber the mind-numbing and butt-numbing hours of pulpitspeak.

The day I got turned down by Gordo for a mission was the day the magik died for me and I was long gone before the hatchet fell and finally killed off all the joys of social Mormonism.

That day was probably Hinckley's last gasp of inspiration, as opposed to his habitual manipulation. He did you a huge favor. He ignorantly blessed you far more than he intended or imagined.

Angels were watching over you that day.

I think JS (and the rest of the Smiths) were really into the woo, and the fascination with it died shortly after he did. BY wasn't into that stuff. He was into thuggery instead.

the magic died for me when after I did all the things I thought I was suppose to and life still didn't work out. I was "obedient" but:
1) couldn't make enough money to get out of poverty and be self- reliant
2) had two worthless educations (7 1/2 years worth)
3) stuck for years in a singles ward
4) never had a family of my own
5) found out that the only person I could really believe in was myself, certainly not some invisible god, who answers prayers when he feels like it.

It boils down to I just don't have enough patience anymore for an ever changing god, who cares sometimes, but is on vacation other times, and sometimes plays tricks on his offspring.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2015 04:16AM by poopstone.

It died two years ago when I clicked on the word cult in a Wikipedia article about Scientology. Then my testimony of all things Mormon unravelled.

That recently! And it seems to have made a huge difference in your life.

The really incredible thing about Kimball was that he admitted he didn't receive revelation. Then he pompously and arrogantly demanded that we obey him anyway, in every cranky little thought that popped into his head.

It was the triumph of prophet-worship not as something abundant and miraculous, but as conformity for its own sake. FTP, Follow the Prophet. And Kimball's dead-fish colleague, Tanner, was if anything worse and less inspired than him.

It died in three minutes, when my children, together, got up the courage to tell me about the on-going they had been suffering in our ward. The words came out of my mouth, without any thought, like a knee-jerk reaction: "You never have to go to that cult again!" I did not know or CARE whether the church was true, or not. I would not allow even God to abuse my children!

Oh, I had stored all those other lies on my "shelf" for many years. My mother stopped attending, when the Blacks were given the priesthood--not because she was against Blacks, but because she felt that had always been a cruel practice, and not Christ-like. When "The Prophet" recanted a rule which JS claimed was a revelation from God--an Eternal Truth--she realized that it was just a cult. My RS President mother stormed around the house, saying, "It's a cult! It's nothing but a cult!" All I felt was relief that a wrong had been made right. I was just a child.

The magic of the temple died, the first time I went there. I had felt the presence of Satan during a temple dedication I attended with my GA relative, but I kept quiet about it. When I grew up and got married in the temple, Satan was there, more powerful than ever. I was convinced that the rituals were evil. I had to endure naked touching and the acted-out throat-slitting, chest rending, and disembowelment. After that, I separated the temple garbage from the rest of Mormonism, and tried to cling onto the church of my youth, before the temple was added to it.

Consolidation put an end to all the social part of Mormonism, which I had enjoyed.

My two divorces were hard to take, because I shouldered the blame, accepted the stigma of failure, both times, though now I know that it was not my fault I was beaten, and cheated-on. What took away any illusion of Love or Christ, was the way the children and I were treated--as a broken home--defective, unworthy, inferior, a not-forever family. In the Mormon belief, we were doomed. I became depressed. The magic died, my soul died, and I was left without hope.

My children led me out. For them, the magic was never there, in the first place. They heard the JS story (the golden plates version) in Primary, and thought, "Wait a minute...that makes no sense." And a little child shall lead them.

That would be the day my sister called me and spent a long time berating me for not agreeing to pay money for Prop. 8. I felt then and I still feel that she was recording the call and probably turned it over to church authorities. Her disloyalty and lack of empathy were staggering to me.

It was finding out how low my sister was willing to go with complete disregard for me and the fact that I had a son who was gay and also her Nephew. I realized that day that she would sell me for 30 pieces of silver if she could. The church had destroyed any trace of solidarity in our family and I realized that we no longer were a family in the true sense of the word.

The fact that this happened because of a religion, was the deal breaker for me. That was the day I decided I no longer wished to be part of any of it.

It's funny, but one Sunday my eyes just opened to all the nonsense. All the magic was gone.

I watched people shuffling in the halls and noticed them all just going through nonsensical motions. I listened to nothing I had not already heard before and realized there was nothing new to learn. I walked past women who were friendly one week and then just didn't even see me the next, and realized the friendships weren't really friendships. I realized the bore of it all and it just clicked: I could be home doing crafts instead of wasting my time here.

At the time I was the only active one in the family so I went alone every Sunday. Now the tables have turned, and everyone else is active while I sit home and make things.

Re your last sentence. How did that happen? It sounds like an interesting story.

I left because I was offended. I was offended watching people wear out the carpet to the bishop's office with complaints that had little to no foundation. The lies and gossip ran ramped throughout the congregation. I wasn't the only one on the receiving end. Others were dragged into the bishop's office.

The worse gossipers and carpet wearers were those whom had their own personal or church-related problems. Seemingly, they went after others with a vengeance.

Finally, one day the SP was standing in the hallway. He asked me whom was creating gossip about the bishop. My reply was that if he continued to request information on what was going on in the ward in regards to the BP, that it was going to be construed as a "witch hunt." At that point he backed down and agreed with my assessment.

It took me a couple of years before I finally had my fill and left.

It was the day of that plane crash that killed Buddy Holly. No, wait a minute...never mind...that's when the MUSIC died.

And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost......
"Poof"....no magic

I don't think so. I lived it because I was raised to live it. I was too afraid not to live it. I wanted a forever family. I didn't want polygamy, but I lived in fear of losing my family. I lost my family even if I did everything right.

Two things--the first day I talked to the bishop about my boyfriend being gay. It was downhill from there.

Going to the temple.That one last bit of maybe there was magic. My super secret special name that I'd waited most of my life for. Lucy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2015 10:27AM by cl2.

PAY LAY ALE! It was shockingly amusing that I immediately jumped out of the temple clothings, gave an excuse and rush out for fresh air and to LAUGH OUT LOUD.

After that that first temple endowment trip I was a changed person. I started looking up in the libraries and bookstores for anti mormon books. Back then the internet was still at its infant and exclusive stage.

The Magic is very much alive. Every time they gather to lay their hands on some innocents head they are commanding the invisible unknown to heal their sick, for material or job related "blessings", or to anoint with oil and give them spiritual powers previously unavailable. Attempted white magic...

I used consecrated oil to fry my eggs...am I going to hell?

Only if you overcooked them. I hate shoe leather fried eggs!

When I left liberal West Hollywood and my Catholic parents and moved to rigid, unflexible, unfriendly BYU. Need I write more?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2015 01:05PM by Senoritalamanita.

It died at the time I realized the 3 Nephites were the same species as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

Decades ago, church history sounded exciting, filled with adventure, daily miracles, risky travels, etc.

Something like Indiana Jones and Father Murphy as guest stars on Bonanza.

Then I saw how the organization really operates now, endless meetings, soul sapping assignments that never really go anywhere,
and all the rest spoken of here.

I doubt that Brigham Young or Joseph Smith would even recognize the expensive borefest currently known as the church. Imagine that the original hucksters being estranged from it!

I used to wholeheartedly believe that LDS members would receive our own special interpretation of current events on General Conference. I believed that Jesus would come again and present himself in the Salt Lake Temple to sit in that throne-chair they have ready for him.

My children believed it too. My son Brian at age 11 was so excited about General Conference, he took a sleeping bag and slept in line outside the door so he could get a good seat.

I totally am nodding my head about the sense of urgency we were all infused with. I sewed sandbags so we could survive Kruschev's bomb (aimed at American Fork?) and we even made homemade radiation detectors in Relief Society (the ubiquitous #10 can, string and foil--I am not making this up).

Our family still laughs over the morning the fire alarm sounded downtown at 6:00 am and we all leaped out of bed bumping into each other, saying, "This is IT!" We ran out of the house barefoot into the snow hurling sandbags into the basement window pits.

Good times....not. A diet of fear rather than faith.


Kathleen

I don't recall ever having a magical world view. I lack the magical faith gene.

The roadshows left town.
The carnivals were shut down.
Girls camp went from being at the seaside to a dirt hole in the desert.
No more live bands at the dances.
No longer allowed to sit with friends at church.
And when I was 18, I went to the temple and mimed slitting my own throat.

The end

When they locked the peepstone in the vault.

If they open the vault door, the magic shines out briefly, so they close the door quickly, so they can continue to run the cult their own way.

anagrammy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> When did the Magic go away? I mean John Taylor was
> still talking to Jesus, Joseph F Smith and Wilford
> Woodruff were... Brigham Young didn't or at least
> I never found any visions or prophecies of his. So
> was it when the corporation stopped polygamy???
>

You have to be a little careful regarding "talking with Jesus." While I am not aware of Brigham claiming to see JC, Brigham, Woodruff and others claimed to have seen Joseph Smith, Hyrum, and others and received directions from them after the Carthage shoot-em-up. Woodruff even said that at some point, he no longer saw JS as he must have gotten a promotion, and Woodruff was being visited by leaders who had passed on subsequent to JS, such as Brigham and Jedediah Grant. As one moves on, another would take his place.

The only time that JC would make an appearance was on something very important, such as visiting Lorenzo Snow in the temple to change the timing of the Presidental succession, and the purported visit to John Taylor about keeping polygamy active.

Now, when did the magic die?

Everyone is aware of the visit of Jesus to Lorenzo Snow in the SLC when it was his turn to become President. The story comes through his granddaughter, who says that Lorenzo told her the circumstances of the appearance of Jesus. The rumour is that not ALL of the story was passed down, and some of it was held back (surprise, surprise)

The story that we have is that on the death of JFSmith, Lorenzo privately went to the SLC temple, dressed in the robes of the holy priesthood, offered up the tokens on the alter and waited for Jesus. He said that he was very disappointed when nothing happened, and questioned his own worthiness.

He left the room, and it was in the hallway outside that Jesus appeared to him and gave him instructions on reorganizing the new FP immediately rather than wait months as in the past.

What is never asked is....why did Jesus not appear in the holy of Holies as expected, and instead showed up in the hallway? Was he running late as one of my seminary teachers suggested? (Wasn't funny in class, either)

The grandaughter, in a private interview decades later, was asked that question. The unwritten story is that Jesus explained that due to something unspecified that the church had done, or not done, (gave up polygamy???), that he would no longer appear to the leaders of the church himself. He only appeared to Lorenzo in the hallway as an acknowledgement of Lorenzo's own righteousness, not his position in the church. This is on Youtube, but at a third hand quote through Ogden Kraut, so take it for what it is worth.

Is this why no one in the Q15 today claims visits from Jesus? They do quietly claim visits from prior leaders who have recently died. Is this why the current Q15 only claim to be witnesses of the Name of Christ, not physical witness of his actual existence? Is that when the magic died?