Teacher Shortages Spur a Nationwide Hiring Scramble (Credentials Optional)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/teacher-shortages-spur-a-nationwide-hiring-scramble-credentials-optional/ar-BBlzRXa

I'm honestly surprised that any young people stick with the job for more than a few years. Historically, we've lost 50% of new teachers within their first five years on the job. It seems from the article that the percentage may well be increasing.

The powers-that-be within the administrative ranks and government have turned teaching into a truly dreadful job. It started in force with the No Child Left Behind legislation and has been increasing every year. Combine that with lousy pay and there is little reason for people to stay.

My brother is a middle school SS teacher and he cites that 50% all the time. He sees new teachers come and go. He loves his job, but there have been years where he didn't. He is in a nice niche for him, but he would not want to find a new job if he had to. He's been at it for nearly a decade now.

Does this say anything to you about the possibility of a decline in applicant 'quality'?

Summer, everything you said, I agree with. I have 2 years before retirement. Just starting out the way things are now, I would definitely leave.

there is not a teacher shortage.
there is a pay shortage.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
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> there is not a teacher shortage.
> there is a pay shortage.


^^^ Exactly!!! If we want to attract the best we need to increase teacher pay substantially. My husband is very well educated and was planning to teach but discovered he makes more money at UPS as well as great benefits. It's sad because he'd be a great teacher.

I have never been able to forgive myself or forget the day I attended my first credential meeting when I entered my fifth year of college so I could be a teacher.

The stupid idiot professor stood up at the podium and told us to go home because there were too many teachers and we were not wanted there and that there would never be a teacher shortage.

My self-esteem was pretty lacking and I walked out just as he suggested. I later was able to get a master's in child development and be a daycare center administrator (fancy preschool teacher). The most I ever made was $7.00 an hour with no benefits but I was a really good preschool teacher. I have always been haunted by the fact that I was never a real teacher with a credential.

I wanted to be a teacher from the time I was a tiny 5 year old and I let this idiot make my decision. No wonder I didn't have a problem joining the Mormon church - I have no guts, no courage, no integrity of self.

If I could have my life to do over, I would never have listened to that man and would be retiring this year. I can't forgive myself. It is with such great sorrow that I never made it to be a real teacher. That stupid professor was so wrong.

Please, young people, don't give up on your dreams. Be true to yourself and follow your heart. Don't listen to the b-----ds!

Did you go to BYU? I never understood the "Family Living" degree either. You learn to live in a family? What a dis-service that professor spouted off about (sounds like they were worried about protecting their own job).

I'm sure you made an enormous difference in child-care (which is generally horrible in the US as far as options, consistency, expense...) Those kids remembered your kindness and guidance, no doubt. =)

We always said those degrees were to give girls something to do while they looked for a husband. That way they could have some theory behind their motherhood skills as they were helpmates and support for their husbands with real jobs and real incomes.

geezerdogmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have never been able to forgive myself or forget
> the day I attended my first credential meeting
> when I entered my fifth year of college so I could
> be a teacher.
>
> The stupid idiot professor stood up at the podium
> and told us to go home because there were too many
> teachers and we were not wanted there and that
> there would never be a teacher shortage.
>
> My self-esteem was pretty lacking and I walked out
> just as he suggested. I later was able to get a
> master's in child development and be a daycare
> center administrator (fancy preschool teacher).
> The most I ever made was $7.00 an hour with no
> benefits but I was a really good preschool
> teacher. I have always been haunted by the fact
> that I was never a real teacher with a
> credential.
>
> I wanted to be a teacher from the time I was a
> tiny 5 year old and I let this idiot make my
> decision. No wonder I didn't have a problem
> joining the Mormon church - I have no guts, no
> courage, no integrity of self.
>
> If I could have my life to do over, I would never
> have listened to that man and would be retiring
> this year. I can't forgive myself. It is with such
> great sorrow that I never made it to be a real
> teacher. That stupid professor was so wrong.
>
> Please, young people, don't give up on your
> dreams. Be true to yourself and follow your heart.
> Don't listen to the b-----ds!


WOW, this is a really interesting post.

"The Stupid idiot professor" Uhhhhhhh who would technically be a teacher, with some high level credentials!!!!! who gave out incredibly bad advice, according to you -some one with out teaching credentials but who is also a teacher in some fashion any way, as a day care administrator , or in your own words -a "fancy preschool teacher".

SO, do not listen to the bastards...... - teachers, because they will mess up a person......... like they did you because they
-teachers would not let you be an official bastard with official bastard (teacher) credentials too.

What an interesting situation.

You say " do not listen to the bastards", but what else is a person going to do ? We are completely dependent on them, because even though they say a lot of really stupid things that sometimes takes us years or even decades to figure out how stupid and incorrect those things really were / are , just as you have stated /noted, we are absolutely compelled to listen to these people / bastards/ teachers in the interest of gleaning a few gems of critical knowledge, out of all of the other CRAP they are likely to say, that might allow us to survive.

It might seem like I am disagreeing with you, but I am not.
I am agreeing with you.
Like you, I am extremely disappointed with the entire process of education. And, I have learned the hard way, that I have to depend on ME to really determine what is really valuable advice and what is not. Some times I am not very good at the task, but at least I know that I always had my best interest in mind, in huge contrast to others who told me to do some incredibly stupid things - like paying tithing !!!!

I have had some really crappy teachers a long the way, some real Bastards, people who did nearly insurmountable damage to my attempt to formally complete my education, even though they gave me one Hell of an informal education, stealing every penny of their paycheck along a very difficult way for me, and most of them were MORmONS, Thank you ( FUCK YOU ! ) very much, Ricks (not much of a) College and THE ( MORmON) church. It boggles my mind that MORmONS like Glenn R. "I can't stop talking about masturbation because I am a pervert who is completely obsessed with it, is there any way I can make you feel even more uncomfortable ???? " Stubbs, actually made a living (posing) as a teacher / professor, and they did it teaching the ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS sham subject of MORmON gospel studies. To think that people actually paid good money to listen to that MORmON spew MORmON ideals out of his foul MORmON teaching orifice, is staggering. The fact that it went on, on a long term basis is stultifying. That man was distasteful and repulsive to an extent that is hard to express, and worthless beyond any measure, and yet MORmONISM provided a context where he could be paid for his offensiveness.


MORmON professor Glenn R. Stubb's latest certificate/ certification, that of his death, is unquestionably the best qualification / best certification and definitely the greatest improvement of his entire career in education.

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/rexburgstandardjournal/obituary.aspx?pid=17414781


I have had a few good teachers, that were invaluable.

The entire education process begins to seem like having a pile of angel food cake and straw berries mixed with dog feces that has to be sorted through, and, of course, I am the one who has to be counted on to separate the good stuff from the bad stuff for obvious reasons before consuming it. Teachers are the ones who contributed to this pile of "stuff" and, of course, all the teachers insist that they only contributed angel food cake and strawberries to the educational pile despite there obviously being so much dog feces in there.

My personal situation was greatly aggravated by my MORmON parents who completely abdicated their parental responsibility to actually nurture in favor of deferring to the MORmON ideal/ program of having their children raised (indoctUrinated) in THE (MORmON) Church, which meant that I already had an overwhelming surplus of foul crap in my life as supplied by THE (MORmON) church.

Thanks to all of the (FEW) good teachers that I had. My thanks to you are too little and too limited and too late, but I can not do any better as I might have better enjoyed the angel food cake and strawberries of education that you supplied, except that I never could get the stench of dog crap -supplied by the "bastards", out of my nostrils.

here is the corrected link for the Glenn R. Stubbs obit

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/rexburgstandardjournal/obituary.aspx?pid=174147816

Hi Smirk!

I really do understand the irony you point out - very good interpretation! There are some really intelligent, acutely perceptive, and highly analytical people on this site!

Thanks for the time you put into the reply! I never looked at it this way.

Pay was a big reason I didn't pursue teaching. I would love to get into it still but the idea of going back to school and then take a drastic pay cut isn't to appealing.

I realize every state approaches teacher pay differently. Where I live and teach (WA State), pay is a function of two things, education and yrs experience.

Most teachers I know earn their Masters degree, and additional credits, over the years.

Once a teacher hits 16 yrs, and a MA degree plus, they are topped out on the pay scale. After that, you get no more raises.

With inflation, and rising health care costs every year, it effectively means you go backwards in pay. And this is right about the time your kids are getting to be college age.

What kind of system slams the pay door on teachers when they hit the ages of 40-50?

What about 2-3 months off a year, plus holidays, prep days, half days, 1-2 weeks at xmas, 1 week spring break...? Medical, pension? Teachers at grade school worked 8:30-2:00 plus 45 min lunch, sometimes less hours for kindergarten/first grade. Doesn't the pay equal out to similar jobs?

question for teachers Wrote:
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> What about 2-3 months off a year, plus holidays, prep days, half days, 1-2 weeks at xmas, 1 week spring break...? Medical, pension? Teachers at grade school worked 8:30-2:00 plus 45 min lunch, sometimes less hours for kindergarten/first grade.
Doesn't the pay equal out to similar jobs?

I will admit the time off is nice, but keep in mind that we are 10-month contract workers. We are not paid during the summer vacation. We are paid only for days worked. When the kids are in school for a half day, we are in school working for the full day. Prep days are also work days (similar to an office job -- lots of computer tasks, copying, meetings, and paper shuffling.)

The contracted hours that students are in school are just a part of our overall work schedule (union contracts specify not only the regular school day, but also "additional hours as needed to complete all assigned job duties," which means there is no limit.) A typical day at school for me is 9 hours. I usually work through all but 15 minutes of my lunch. I put in at least another half an hour when I get home. I will put in a minimum of 3-5 hours in every weekend. I've worked through entire weekends at report card time, sometimes several weekends in a row. Increased testing demands mean even more hours spent grading and entering test results. If each child takes a 30-question test twice a month, I must hand-enter each 30-question answer for every child in the class. It can take several hours to do that.

The workload is rather staggering. Also keep in mind that we put in these additional hours after dealing with two dozen or more *very* active children or adolescents all day. (Imagine having two dozen young children in your house all day, every day. You not only have to babysit them, but you also have to give them lots of work to do. How would you feel at the end of each day?) And speaking personally, there have been some years where I have been repeatedly punched, kicked, slapped, etc. There are days when I feel like a prison guard, not a teacher.

The benefits are nice. I will enjoy a secure pension. But the pay is truly horrible. It isn't even close to what my peers in other fields are earning. And teachers are treated like crap by administrators and sometimes parents.

Veteran teachers stay in for the pension. Most don't go over the minimum they need to draw the pension anymore. A number of my colleagues retire early. I will be shocked if school districts will be able to retain large numbers of younger teachers.

The job used to be demanding but rewarding. Now it is just punishing.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2015 10:34AM by summer.

question for teachers - You have no idea what you're talking about. What 'similar jobs' would you equate to being a teacher? Your statement shows the misconceptions that abound among those who have not been a teacher.

question for teachers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What about 2-3 months off a year, plus holidays,
> prep days, half days, 1-2 weeks at xmas, 1 week
> spring break...? Medical, pension? Teachers at
> grade school worked 8:30-2:00 plus 45 min lunch,
> sometimes less hours for kindergarten/first grade.
> Doesn't the pay equal out to similar jobs?

My teacher wife gets almost 2 months off a year -- without pay.
"Prep days" and "half days" don't mean less work, they mean doing work other than working with students. The weeks off at christmas and spring break -- not paid.

She arrives at the school at 7AM, classes start at 8:15. Classes end at 2:45, she stays until 4:30 usually. She rarely even gets a 30-min lunch. She also puts in 10-20 hours at home weekly, that she's not paid for.

You haven't got a clue what teaching requires.

Nowhere in your schedule did you put in time for grading papers, calling parents, scheduling conferences, preparing lessons, learning new materials, re-upping their credentials, etc.

When my brother was a first year teacher, he spent about 60 hours a week on his job. He went in at 7 am and went home at 5, then he put 2-3 more hours in the evenings. He spent at least one weekend day catching up. He tried to stay 3 steps ahead of his kids.

Of course, it gets easier over time, but he still works well over 40 hours during the school year. He only makes $45k, but he likes that he can spend summers with his children. Take away his summers and he'd go get himself a job that compensated him for his time better. He also has a Masters in teaching.

New teachers in Alberta, Canada make C$58,500/year to start. What is the starting salary in the state you all live in?

Ron Burr

In Calif., entry-level teachers average about $39K per year.
The median income for teachers after 5 years of teaching is $69k per year. That's for elementary, middle, and high school. College teachers (you don't have to be a "professor" to teach at most community and state colleges) average starting at $47K per year, and have a median after five years of $82k.

My wife is a special-ed teacher (she works with elementary-level autistic, Down Syndrome, and other special-needs kids). She's been doing it 9 years. She makes $50k, and merits much more.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2015 11:11PM by ificouldhietokolob.

What this tells me is that the economy must be better. Teachers were being laid off five and six years ago.

To me, it shows that the economy is better than it was, but there's still a lot of improvement needed. One thing I've noticed is that some counties and cities have lifted their hiring freezes and are now hiring more.

I've just retired after 39 years as a public school teacher in Alberta. My salary when I left teaching was C$92,000/year. I've never considered myself underpaid, though I also never believed I was overpaid either. It's a tough job, and I earned what I made. It's also an amazingly rewarding job, and I have wonderful memories of my students and my years in the classroom. It's a shame that fewer young people are choosing education as a career, or staying with it - the average time an ed. grad spends as a teacher in Canada is similar to the US, about 5 years. The increased bureaucracy, paperwork and red tape have made it harder to do what we love best - teach.

My brother retired early about 8 years ago because of health (knee replacements and arthritis) and when the local school authority wouldn't assign him to a smaller school to help him control his arthritis better (on orders from his surgeon) he packed it in and gave up topping up his pension for the last 7 years. That and a lack of support by higher ups to serve ESL students (a large issue in southern Alberta schools) made teaching less appealing than when he started in 1977.

Ron Burr

A friend of mine was a teacher in UT and only got up to $65K but he also had a masters degree. UT pay for teachers sounds much lower than the rest of the teachers.

I have homeschooled my three boys for the past five years and it has taught me to love and respect you more. Coming up with lesson plans for three different kids of different ages is very tricky but doing it for a classroom of thirty?! I get to pick curriculum and find what works best for each kid but you are told what curriculum to use and to make it work for everyone and hope they learn it well enough to get good grades on standardized tests. You're all amazing for those reasons and many more. Thank you for all the good you do!

Teachers in WA State start out at about $35K, and top out at about $64k. Top pay is not bad if you live in a small community on the eastside of the state (very rural).

It's a poor salary if you live on the west side in one of the larger cities like Seattle.

The "time off" for teachers is one of the great misconceptions. First, I don't have a 45 minute lunch, I have a 22 minute lunch. I will admit without the "vacation" time I never would have stuck with teaching. If we just put in one "extra" hour a day beyond our "contract time" we put in 4.5 40 hour work weeks. I WISH I could get my work done with just one extra hour per day! My spouse works in the business sector and I am the one who regularly misses dinner because of mandatory meetings and events. He said he had no idea how many hours teachers worked and how poorly they are treated by administrators until he married me.

As far as the economic recovery goes, the shortage is most likely a combination of terrible public policy and economic changes. During the Great Recession public policy was driven by the idea that school failures had nothing to do with funding and socio-economic problems and everything to do with "bad teachers." The policy aimed to get rid of "bad teachers" by implementing "turnaround" plans that required 50% of the teachers in a building to be fired and replaced by new teachers. This is despite the fact that there is no research to support such a policy. So, some of the reasons that people will choose teaching include secure work, designated vacation time, and secure pensions. All of this traits are being attacked by both political parties. So, I suppose they can eliminate those things, but then they will need to raise salaries to get people to commit to the profession. Of course there are policy makers who think that teaching shouldn't be a profession. Instead they want recent college grads to teach for a few years as a sort of service work and then go on to their "real careers." That way they can make them work 80 hour work weeks in charter schools with no security. Of course wealthy children will still have career teachers.

Anyway, we can thank both President Bush and President Obama for disastrous federal education policy that states embrace because they don't want to spend more state money than they need to. I don't know if it will get better, because the shortage now supports the policy mantra that we need to do "something" to solve this problem and that "something" won't be looking at how we can support career teachers.

Education policy has been in a steady decline since I started teaching and I hope I can make it the 10-12 years I have left until retirement. On the other hand, I stay with it because when I am in my classroom working with kids it is great work.

Instead, they complain and mistreat them. If they want to keep teachers, everyone needs to treat them with respect and fairness. Also, the teaching regulations need to allow for good teachers to use their creativity and ingenuity. There's too much emphasis on lock step rules and pressure for every teacher to be a clone of some expert who couldn't hold their own in a real classroom.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2015 02:39AM by Cheryl.

That's what kills me, Cheryl. I've been teaching for nineteen years now, every grade from 1-7, every curriculum that you can name. Yet so-called "experts" know better than me. Most of them don't have anything close to my depth of experience.

The "experts" want us to have years of training, credentials, and experience. Then they want to tell us what to do and micromanage us every second of the day. And they don't get the irony of that.

What are some possible solutions? The work schedule/stress is not worth the pay or summer break? Which countries manage it better per dollar spent?

Shorter day? American kids continue to fall behind in math and science (not at every school). Some communities have after school homework programs and hang outs...

Team teaching? I volunteered at a school where they called it "specials" (one teacher and a TA would combine two classes for two hours while the other teacher graded or prepped for the next day).

It seems the more affluent areas have lots of parent volunteers. I volunteered teaching Art Literacy (famous architects, artists...) It consisted of a fun visual power point lecture, then a one hour art project related to the subject/artist. I also read to kids/had them read to me.

I taught for 33 years, junior high & high school. I loved the kids and my subject area and hated the rest of the baloney. I made a lot less than I would have in another profession.
I would tell current and retired teachers to watchand protect the pension you were promised in lieu of higher salary.
Those who think like 'question for teachers' will try and take away as much of your pension as possible because, after all, you don't really deserve it.
And of course, they were once students and therefore know everything about what you, the teacher, should do, much better than you.

Compared to salaries in the Western U.S., the salaries in Alberta, Canada, rock!

You may want to look into private and charter schools. They often break the mold of public schooling and some offer great salaries. More fun for the teachers, and more fun for the students. It can be a win-win.

Top pay at this New York charter school is about 140K

http://www.wsj.com/articles/charter-school-study-finds-high-teacher-pay-helps-students-1414123264