I am not mormon nor is my husband (we've never been), but his sister is. I try and respect their beliefs, but my patience is running thin.

Here is a copy and paste from a post I just made in a mom's group. Any input on how to handle this situation would be greatly appreciated. I am really getting PO'd and losing my patience QUICKLY!!!

My SIL and her husband/5yo live out of state and we see them maybe once a year. This was that weekend. I dreaded it for many reasons, but it's gotten worse.

Their 5yo is a serious snot who has ZERO manners and is not effectively disciplined, IMO. I am not sure if it's part of their religion (they are Mormon...we are not) or what, but it's clearly gone over the top and crossed boundaries.

It started night one when this child started pointing out every "sin" we were committing that is against Mormon beliefs. If my son (he is 8) said, "Oh GOD!!!" for some reason (with no ill intent), this kid would run right out to his parents and say, "Mommy! Joey said Heavenly Father's name!!" and on and on it went for every little thing. Parents did NOTHING to stop it that was effective other than "Let's not tattle".

It got worse. At dinner, this kid wanted to sit next to my son, but this kid did NOTHING but bother my son. He would lean over and chomp his food in his ear, constantly touch him, get in his face, etc while eating. They, AGAIN, did ZERO for quite a while. Eventually, my son said he was going inside (we were eating outside)..then this kid said he was going in, too, so my son said, "Then I am staying out". Eventually, Mom and Dad realized he was being a sh**head so they just moved him. Didn't correct him...didn't discipline him..just moved his seats (which resulted in a tantrum to which they coddled to him).

Other little things happened, but then this child outright disrespected ME in a HUGE way. We were at the cottage and were bringing things from the beach up. This child had the oars to a Kayak he was carrying. He was about 15 feet behind my husband and I and his parents about 30 feet ahead of us. Out of nowhere, this kid DROPS the oars and decides he wasn't carrying them. I asked him to please pick them up and help. He said NO. My husband asked. He said NO. I said, "You really need to pick them up" to which he replied "No, YOU pick them up". I went LIVID. His parents?? Oh, they just pulled him aside and said, "That wasn't nice". And that was the end of that. He was not made to carry the oars up nor was he disciplined for his outright disrespect to an adult.

He called my kids names (not vial names..but still with the intent of cruelty) to the point where they avoided him like the plague the entire weekend (which, my kids are very social so it had to have been bad).

This morning, my husband had a cup of coffee to which this kid asked him what he was drinking. My husband told him and the kid flipped his lid! He said, "YOU aren't supposed to drink that!!!" (mormons don't do coffee or tea). Again, parents let this child go. I read that Mormon kids are encouraged to point out things to others that are "sinful" to them, but IMO, it's downright rude and I just don't know how to handle this situation. The child is permitted to burp at the table without correction, play with food, etc. It's just downright mind boggling to me.

Any suggestions how to handle this rude kid without overstepping my own boundaries? Would it be out of place for me to say, "Well, Child, we aren't mormons and my God permits Coffee"? How to handle the other ill-mannered behaviors?

Thanks in advance!

I'm sorry you are dealing with such a difficult situation. This is a hard one. My only thought would be to tell the child if he doesn't start acting polite your family won't be able to have him over anymore. I also think you need to let the parents know that you don't appreciate the behavior of their son. As for comments on coffee tell him that not everyone believes the way he does and most people drink coffee.

Well at least the mormons don't have to take the blame on this one. My TBM (true believing mormon) daughter is as TBM as they get, and her kids are great.

It's your in-laws. They are shit head parents. And yes, you SHOULD tell the kid that 99.92% of the world ISN'T mormon and doesn't follow mormon rules. It's 99.96% when you factor in the inactive members of the 15 million members of record.

Seriously, it's not mormonism, it's his parents. Their darling little asshole son is so unfortunate to have been born to them.

Give your kids big hugs and thank them for not being like him. And pat yourselves on the back!

I learned this precious lesson many years ago: We deserve what we tolerate. I would have politely but firmly left the place. If hell is what you desire, try California.

http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/

You have the patience of Job. I would have spanked the BRAT with a wooden spoon and F*CK what his moron parents said. If they never invited me to visit again, I'd celebrate!!!

I know you are just kidding because you and I both know you would be spending the night in jail for assaulting a minor - if indeed his parents wanted to press the issue, and 10 to 1 they would.

I couldn't agree more with everything elderoldog said!
Having raised my kids "old school" I find this behavior unbearable. It's not a mormon thing, this child's parents ate dumbasses and too lazy to correct him or teach him anything about how to treat people.

Are, not ate!

I'd say, "You're not the boss of me or my family, young man. I won't let my kids talk to you unless you can use your good manners with them."

I would do this if the parents were watching or not. Then I'd deal with the "adults" if necessary. I'm a kindergarten/first grade teacher and I've talked to kiddies that way for years and it's done them and their parents a world of good.

You are overly sensitive.

Correct the kid and tell him to shut up - and if he doesn't he will be put in the bedroom. If the parents don't like it they can leave.

This isn't a Mormon thing. Just a bratty kid.

My step nephew was a real brat (not Mormon) when he was a kid (yes, I still remember), but he grew up to be a psychologist and good husband and father.

"I had to talk your little boy about his manners and correcting adults and other kids about not following Mormon rules. I'm sure you wouldn't want him to be embarrassed or be looked down on for this behavior. And sometimes kids will listen better to an adult other than parents."

If the parental response is angry, I'd persist. "I have to insist on my family being treated with civility. I hope I won't have to intervene too often but if necessary I will. Now can we talk about something else? How about those baseball scores? Have you watched any games lately?"

Anytime the kid corrects you, I would simply state, "That's a Mormon rule and we are not Mormon. Plus, children do not correct adults."

If the kid is bothering your son, then correct him if the parents won't. It's your job to protect your son. As a teacher I will often correct kids in public if their actions are infringing on my welfare or safety. Just yesterday I had to tell a girl to stop tearing through a building. Some parents are clueless.

Part of this was Mormon. These parents allowed (and encouraged) their kid to criticize you over Mormon issues. If they did not want their kid to disrespect you in this way, they would have done something about it. I have seen this behavior among adults of various religious group who allow or use their kids to get their religious digs in.

I would take this up directly with the parents. Anyone who would come into my house and criticize me for not living up to their religious views would not be coming back to my house.

By doing nothing about it, these parents were encouraging the behavior. They were approving of it. At that point, it makes little difference if the garbage is coming out of the kid's mouth or one of the adults.

I would tell them that if they cannot be polite and respectful towards others, there really is no reason for these difficult get togethers.

I agree part of this IS Mormon, if not all of it. My SIL took me to their church a few years back (before I knew about much of the bizarre rituals, etc). They called it a "family friendly" church. I was in awe. Those people just let those kid do what they want!! EVEN IN CHURCH! I couldn't hear what was going on at ALL. I could only hear giggles, kids talking, etc. It was a COMPLETE disrespect to others in the church. That is why I am leaning towards this being a Mormon thing, as a whole.

They are here for another day and I am hiding out inside the house claiming to not feel well. I know it's wrong, but I am at the end of my rope. I am sitting here with a very large latte and at any moment, I could just become angry enough to take my coffee outside and start some issues..LOLOL

My nuclear option when it comes to Mormon criticism goes something like this.

I find it astounding that you would sing "Praise to the Man" about Joseph Smith, a man who sexually abused 14 year olds, and then criticize me for...(drinking coffee, having a beer, wearing a tank top, being gay, etc). It is nice to know that you have standards.


Like I said. It is a nuclear option and more appropriately directed toward an adult than a 5 year old kid.

I agree that this is a parenting issue, not a Mormon issue. That being said, I could swear you're describing my TBM niece and her kids. The kids figured out very early on that their parents will yell at them three times before they'll experience any consequences. So the kids will misbehave and continue to act out until after their third warning.

Next time you know you'll be around your in-laws I see nothing wrong with telling them what sorts of behavior won't be tolerated. Since this is your husband's sister it would probably better if he delivered the message. Then stick to your guns. It sounds like you're at the point where you'd feel better offending the parents than having to put up with their bratty kid anyway.

As far as the judgmental comments go, tell the kid, "Jesus told us not to judge each other. Why do you hate Jesus?"

I would pull the in-laws aside or send an e-mail and tell them that their childs behavior is rude and uncalled for and that you don't want that kind of example set in front of your kids, and if they want to come visit again, they need to address and correct the issue before they show up, and control the behavior when they are there. Turn the tables on them....its the mormon kid thats being bad.

I would also add that in your house, its unacceptable to have their child point out the things you do that are against the rules of mormonism.....you aren't mormon.....and its rude!

it's rude to talk that way no matter where it happens. We don't treat guests like that, or passer-bys on the street, or anyone at school so shoddily. Unless the "objectionable behavior" endangers or in some measurable way harms others no one needs to chastise over such minor behaviors.

As a teacher, I'd ask tattlers, "Did what he did hurt or scare you? Or is it just a choice that really make a difference? Sit down and think about it for 60 seconds and decide if you need to report this or go about your business.

I would correct the child in front of the parents, especially about the Mormon crap. I would not hide in my own house.

You could always pull the "my house, my rules" routine.

"In this house, we have a rule where children are not allowed to correct adults."

"In this house, we have a rule that we all treat each other with respect."

"In this house, we have a rule to sit at the dinner table, and use our manners, so we do not disturb other people who are eating."

All of the rules should boil down to respect for others. While you are explaining the rules, be sure to explain the consequences for breaking them. "You are 8, so you will have an 8-minute time out." "You are a 27-year-old parent, so you will sit here for 27 minutes and think about how you're parenting is wrong. Then you will explain to me how you will teach your children to respect the people they are visiting."

Seriously, the kids need adult guidance they are not getting. This could be partially a mormon thing, seeing as how many mormon parents leave the learning of morals and values up to the church, forgetting that there's nothing in Sunday School about treating fellow humans with respect.

That doesn't exactly work in this case. The OP said this was a once a year thing, so odds are it is a vacation home and not "their house their rules", more like this is a yearly trip that the entire family takes, thus the entire family pays for the house.

rracer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That doesn't exactly work in this case. The OP
> said this was a once a year thing, so odds are it
> is a vacation home and not "their house their
> rules", more like this is a yearly trip that the
> entire family takes, thus the entire family pays
> for the house.
They come to our state once a year but this year they rented a cottage next to ours (we own)

Well it wouldn't exactly be "couth" with your family, but you do have the right to tell them to vacate the premises if the little guy's behavior doesn't improve seeing you are technically the owner of the property.

Question. Are these Utah Mormons? I've lived all over the US & have never seen such unruly, undisciplined, bratty kids than here in Utah. I had some Mormon acquaintances in TX & CA. Their kids were well behaved, but they (Mormons) were a small minority. If they acted like this brat, other kids would kick their ass. When they're in the majority, they behave (with parental approval) with superior, holier-than-thou attitudes.

They aren't from Utah but both of them graduated from BYU

I LOVE the blunt honesty here!!!!!!!! My mom website? They were so passive 'suck it up" responses. I just can't do that. I'm a in-your-face mind your own biz kind of gal

I seen no reason why you should have to put up with their childs bad behavior. But I also don't see a reason why you have to do the parenting for them. I'd just refuse to be around the kid if he's acting up. Doubly so for my kid!

The difference between family and friends is that we get to choose our friends. You would never choose people like those relatives to be your "friends" so simply cut them off and never see them again.

Unless the answer is "just ignore it" - they will be made aware of the difference between how it should be handled and how they are actually handling it.

I've never been Mormon and if a five year old was saying these things to me I would not hesitate to voice my own views.
My drinking coffee is a sin? No, my beliefs are different than yours.
I would also make a point to having your son sit away from him so he's not being hounded so bad, if he is, I would have to intervene.

In my experience, mormon kids (especially in Utah) are rather passively raised and heavily tolerated. The parents often depend on the collective to do much of the work (school, church, etc.).

If it we me in this situation, I'd get my husband to talk to his sister and tell her that the child is too disruptive to have your family around. So, either the sister and husband take a firmer hand, or you can see either other with children present.

by not addressing the issues. You would be doing them a FAVOR so their child doesn't grow up to be a rude, entitled little shit. The rest of the world is not going to bend over for him, the sooner he learns that lesson (and the kids that come after him) the better he will do in the real world. You let a puppy piddle on the rug that puppy is going to piddle on EVERY rug. Address it with the parents but if next year he is exhibiting the same kind of behavior I would correct him IMMEDIATELY and make your shock known RIGHT THEN to his parents.

Little Snotty! Stop that right now! It is RUDE. Don't annoy anyone at the dinner table. SIL, I thought we had discussed your son's annoying my son before.

Little Snotty! You don't correct adults. Not only do most of the people in the world drink coffee but it is very healthy for you. SIL, I thought we had discussed this issue before. Why is it continuing and why are you not disciplining your own child?

You don't need to be nasty but you will have to be firm and no nonsense with both of them. Protect your boundaries and those of you kids.

Actually I think it is an "Mormon" thing! Since moving to utah I have seen the majority of kids act just like this. (and the majority are LDS here) I've come to the conclusion that Mormon parents want to Be friends with their kids. The only Rules these kids have to obey are the rules of the church so it seems like if these TBM parents instill all of the church rules then they are doing their part. And from what I've seen they do a pretty good job of letting their kids do whatever else they want with little, to no consequences.

I also worked in the school here and I couldn't believe how many times I woulds see parents defend and make excuse for their children when their kids were in the wrong. I think it has something to do with appearances as well. If the child is misbehaving then it really is a direct reflection of the parents and the parent can't take criticism or accountability for that either so they ignore it or sometimes it's because they have too many children and are spread thin.

I do to...and I think it has to do with the fact that everything is a sin in Mormonism. A lot of moron parents think it's a sin to be to authoritarian or disciplinary with this chillun's. Somehow they are not loving their child if they are redirect him/her. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but it does seem like I've seen the behavior in a lot of Mormon kids like she describes.