The church has become very wealthy,comfortable and nothing is more out of touch than a fat cat. The Ukraine is a war zone. My mom was Canadian of Ukrainian decent. I have cousins in Kyiv.

I’ve personally served in war zones. Unless you’ve been in one you have no idea. What people do in war zones is survive. For some that usually means you kill people or you are killed. For others you witness the carnage and experience the fear and uncertainty of your surroundings. Politics no longer matters.

Did the early church members forgive the people of Missouri who killed, raped and stole their property? Or Illinois for running them out or the US Federal Government for offering no help? Hardly. The church even had oaths of vengeance in it’s temple ceremonies. Unforgiving members slaughtered a wagon train in Utah and kidnapped the children.

So now instead of blood atoning Brigham we have a cushy hippy dip prophet who says we should forgive everyone. Well that’s pretty easy when you are well financed, secure and comfortable. Not so much in a war zone. So for those of us who live in the real world full of dangers and problems sappy happy talk runs thin.

Nelson is well protected. Well fed. Has access to the best healthcare and doesn’t have to worry about rent or bills. Salt Lake City is not a war zone. Does he have relatives in the Ukraine? Please. Save it old guy. You are a fat cat.

Well said, Rubicon.

Kyiv is not the place to be right now but there are few choices for all too many people. I hope your cousins will be OK.

Syrupy words may be good to the ears of some but are of zero use in many real life situations. It's easy to forgive in principle. Fine words for a sunny day in a safe zone. But by the time cats morph into fat cats they're far away from the mean streets and forget what it's like in the real world, if they ever knew.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2022 08:15PM by Nightingale.

The church became very rich selling fantasies and now it’s leaders have the luxury of living in a fantasy world. The church originally was about building Zion in America. Then when that was no longer possible they started asking for cash tithing, incorporated itself and became a business. It literally has more money than it knows what to do with now. Not exactly the entity that is going to understand a hard life.

in b 4 ~ the sword of mormonism has lost its edge ~

"So now instead of blood atoning Brigham we have a cushy hippy dip prophet who says we should forgive everyone."


Nelson: "God's love is conditional"

Also Nelson: "we should forgive everyone"


In my experience, those who push forgiveness the hardest tend to be those who have harmed others and want to avoid any blowback. "We should forgive everyone" is a self-serving cloak for "You should forgive me."

You commented that "In my experience, those who push forgiveness the hardest tend to be those who have harmed others and want to avoid any blowback. "We should forgive everyone" is a self-serving cloak for "You should forgive me."

For a large part of my adult life, I have been told that I MUST forgive those who have hurt me.

As I see it, those people need to apologize and ASK to be forgiven. In two of three cases, this is not likely because the perpetrators are dead. In the other case, I believe that Hell would freeze over before that other wrongdoer would apologize.

So if I require an apology before forgiving, that kind of lets me off the hook, doesn't it?

The church telling rape victims to forgive their perps is pretty consistent throughout church history.

Repentance has specific steps - items to follow - be recognized in MoCulture:

- Forsake sin
- contrite sorrow
- Admit - Confess
- Restitution


Forgiving- Forgiveness doesn't



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2022 02:27AM by GNPE.