Previous thread here: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1651784

Thank you all for helping out. Special mention goes to Eric3, Optional2 (I met Bill M while in Utah a few weeks ago), and generationofvipers.

Sorry I was in such a hurry that I wasn't all that clear about what we're doing and why. It looks like the time pressure is off so I can come back and explain further.

My DIL won her custody battle, but the Mormon family has some visitation rights. (It's VERY complicated.) The court order makes my DILs rights to religious training superior to the rights of the Mormon family. So we expect that at some point she will tell them that she is raising her son Christian, and insists that they not push Mormonism onto him. (They are severely TBM.)

That will likely provoke them into going back to court for a clarification of the order. If there is a hearing on the religion question it's possible they will argue that Mormonism is a form of Christianity, so what's the harm? I would want my DILs atty to be prepared to show that it's not. That's why I want the comparative religion pieces. An expert witness is also a possibility.

I thought this might come up quickly, but now, after meeting with atty, it looks like something we'll save for later. We have other fish to fry immediately.

Again, thanks for proving once again to me, and to all others listening in, that this is the place to go when you need help that just can't be found anywhere else. Not when you need same day service.

= = = = =

So, now. If you could tell your Mormon family what NOT TO DO to your kid (that ties to Mormonism) while he/she's in their care, what would you put on your list? Here's my best shot at starting such a list.

No Primary. Too much indoctrination there. Sacrament Meeting is OK.

No baptism.

No bishop's interview.

No teaching about Eternal Family.

No songs or recitations like Follow the Prophet, I hope they call me to be a missionary. I will be baptized, I will be confirmed. I belong to the COJCOLDS.

And please feel free to correct any obvious misunderstanding I have.

= = = = =

JAR

Ps Sorry I confused some folks with that phrase 'historic Christianity'. It's sometimes used to distinguish between theologically conservative Christianity with its roots in history versus theologically liberal with its roots in modern philosophy.

PPs We live far from the morridor.

Mormmonism is not considered a "Traditional Christian" religion.
However, since they do claim to worship jesus and live his gospel as described in the Bible they can be describes as "christian" (little c), but not "Christian" (Capital C).
As such they can come up with a pretty long list of subjects that are the same or close to what Christians believe. Others have already mentioned some of the main differences.

If you allow them to take the child to sacrament meeting, what would they do with him for the other two hours of church?

When I read about trying to prove in court that Mormonism is different than Christianity, this is the phrase that came to mind: "making a distinction without a difference."

I am thinking that a fair court would not care about this distinction and would just see the two things as religions, with religions having certain rights and restrictions under the law.

But if people in the court are not fair and unbiased, the matter could possibly have some weight.

If the judge was a Mormon: "Mormonism is definitely a Christian religion."

If the judge was a non-Mormon Christian: "Mormonism is clearly not a Christian religion."

If the judge was a secularist or had studied some anthropology: "Mormonism is obviously a Christian religion along with things as diverse as Roman Catholicism, the Eastern Orthodox religion, the Baptist branch of Protestantism, and newer groups like the Seventh Day Adventists and the Jehovah's Witnesses. And to take an even broader view, Christianity and Judaism are so similar in so many ways that for some purposes, this religion might best be described as Judeo-Christianity."

justarelative,
I wish you and your DIL nothing but the best.
But I weep for the religious hell this kid is going to be put through.

If I could offer my suggestion on what to "avoid" in mormonism:
Everything. All functions insidiously indoctrinate.

But then, I'd say the same thing about any "christian" church, so you may not want to listen to me. :)

You and your DIL could quit fighting with your Mormon relatives and think of the child's welfare first.

If the child is bright at all, he's going to see through both versions of this religious poppycock soon enough.

But you can hasten his future enlightenment by continuing the "my imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend" battle.

Poor kid.

I don't think you said how old the child is. If the other family has the child on the weekends I don't see how he can not be exposed to the Mormon religion. They can't leave him home alone while they go to church and if they take him he would have to be there the entire 3 hours.
You say Sacrament meeting is OK but no teaching about eternal family, which is quite often talked about in sacrament meeeting along with other "unChristian" doctrines.
I am afraid that the unavoidable consequences of having to share him with the other family is that he is going to be exposed to both religions whether you like it or not.
I think the best you can do while he is young is help him sort out at home what he hears at the mormon meetings from the truths you want him to know.

Yeah,I'm not sure this is something you can have control over; both parents have the right to parent according to their their understanding of what's right, and the court has no jurisdiction over what religion, philosophy or worldview the kid is taught. You'd have to prove it's actually abusive.

The bare fact of there being two parents means you don't get to control every aspect of how your kid is parented, because they're not just your kid.

The odds are overwhelming that the cripplingly mormon family will violate the strictures of the custody agreement. Because from their 'eternal' perspective, it's the right thing to do!

So it wouldn't hurt to think about how that situation, when it arises, is going to be handled.

And seriously, as Amyjo has pointed out, if the family is nutso enough and has the resources, they'll 'save' the child by keeping the child from the mother.

Mormons think it is ok for a grown man to talk to a child by themself behind closed doors about their sexual thoughts/actions. This ALONE should be enough to have the child go to the Mormon church.

And there is many other things, that show it is a destructive cult (look up signs of a destructive cult, and you will see).

But if she has to compromise, hopefully it can be something like the child can only go to church with them a certain amount of times (like once a month, once every 2 months). And then, only the amount of time that her church lasts, most churches services last just an hour.

Mormonism is a radical departure from Christianity. Their founding story, the first vision, speaks for itself. Read Joseph Smith History 1:19.
"I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: 'they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.'"
There is absolutely no way that you can say that "all creeds" (Christian Beliefs) are "an abomination" to God and still claim to be Christian. The fact of the matter is that Joseph Smith rejects everything Christianity stands for while claiming to be Christian. That doesn't make sense at all.

My advice would be to bring up strange beliefs of Mormons such as the belief that Laman and Lemuel were cursed with a skin of blackness in 2 Nephi 5:21.
"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

A Judge would sympathize with a Father who doesn't want things like racism and polygamy (D&C 132) taught to their son.

Verses of the Book of Mormon like 1 Nephi 14:10 are very offensive to most people. It says that all non-Mormons are devil worshipers. It says:
"And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth."

Tell the Judge that you don't want your child being taught that his father is a devil worshiper. Tell the Judge that teachings like racism and polygamy are immoral and even illegal. Tell the Judge that no parent in good conscious would allow these things to be taught to a child.