Let me clarify. For many years, in private circles within California Mormonism, I heard whispered expressions by some that Utah Mormons are lazy, uncommitted, fake, redneck, and unprincipled; while the true, committed Mormons are in California. I have heard many say, for example, that they would never raise their children in Utah because they don't want their children to turn out like those lame Utah Mormons.

I would love to hear if anyone else has seen this or has other examples of factions or similar subcultures of superiority. I wonder if UK Mormons have some pockets of superiority??

The fact that anyone considers themselves better than someone else is a very Mormon trait. I'm sure the self righteous TBM's in Raymond think themselves superior to those not living in the southern Alberta Moridor.

RB

There is an ugly 'caste' system in Raymond.

First, those families directly descended from the original settling pioneer stock, Knight, consider themselves so prestigious and righteous their shit don't stink.

Second, there are those who aren't directly related from the pioneer stock, but have always been members.

Third, converts.

My father's parents emigrated to Raymond from Utah (Burrville/Payson) in 1905...and my grandfather was a worthless no account asshole and philanderer according to my dad. Dad also told me the Knights and their closest confidants thought their shit did stink too.

Ron Burr

Nevermind



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2015 07:05PM by Redneck Wonderland.

Hey Nor Cal-
You're young, and have much to live and learn, no offense....but so much has happened and changed in the LDS church in 25 years that your great grandparents wouldn't even recognize it.
California has a large Mormon population because 50 years ago, it was affordable place to move to and live. Yet, Mormons were/are a minority of the population. The scope of influence was/is through business and politics..not the church itself.
In Utah, LDS is the majority, so the influence is church, politics, business.
Having lived in both places; that difference is paramount.
It's not that Utah Mormons are lazy, it's just that the church is THERE, EVERYWHERE.
In Ca, unless you're a missionary, your Mormonism is not the ONLY topic of conversation.

And yet, by and large, the california mormons were one of the instrumental groups behind the proposition 8 movement.

When you live in a glass house, it's probably not a good idea to cast stones at others (even of the seer variety).

I've known utah mormons that match your stereotype, and I've known others that were the polar opposite of...

And, your point?

When I lived in california, at first, many of its residents struck me as pompous, materialistic, uncaring, cold, dilettantes. But I had enough sense to realize that not all california residents fit into said mold, that every californian was unique, and that my brain's attempt to stereotype others is probably just a genetic ghost from times past when tribalism and xenophobia and jingoism actually proved to be an evolutionary advantage.

Funny how civilization and learning help us overcome some of our more primal drives from the past, isn't it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2015 11:05AM by schlock.

I moved from California to Utah because we all understood we were living in the moral underarm of the United States, due to the proximity of San Francisco.

So why not go to Utah and see what a truly moral society, a theocracy based on true principles, looks like?

And the Utah Mormons can't wait for people like us to arrive, where we are invited to invest immediately. Before I came to Utah, nobody in my family had been cheated, not paid wages, or sexually molested. No one spread lies about us (Californians don't care) and no one threw rocks at my children over what church they go to.

Californians never spit on my children or threatened me if I didn't shut up.

I'll stop there.


Kathleen

Um, I disagree
It was Utah Mormons/money behind Prop 8
AS WELL AS many Southern Baptist-offshoot churches in So Cal.

Thank god the california mormons had absolutely nothing to do with the passing of proposition 8. Including the donating of vast sums of money, and time, to the effort.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fred-karger/mormongate----the-churchs_b_163016.html

According to this article, it appears to have been a group effort. But I'm sure the author's facts are incorrect.



And then again, regular citizens in germany weren't to blame for the SS atrocities during WWII either, were they?

schlock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to this article, it appears to have been
> a group effort. But I'm sure the author's facts
> are incorrect.

No, they're correct. Let's keep in mind, though, that much of the "mobilization" of California mormons on Prop. 8 was a result of letters from the First Presidency in Utah essentially ordering them to commit all the time and money they could to it. And that the call centers the church set up (and didn't report on time, earning them fines for election fraud) were in Utah. This was a *mormon* effort. The church told its California members what to do, and they did it. With lots of support from Utah.

Yep, you are correct.

Which makes both the utah mormons, and california mormons, culpable.

Many aspects about my mormon mission to latin america that I still fondly recollect. Nevertheless, I'm still regretful and a bit ashamed that I taught the mormon nonsense to people in latin america for 2 years.

Same concept. Don't allow hubris to cloud one's recollection of actual history. Says I.

I've lived in Nevada, where there was a similar attitude regarding Utah Mormons. And then I moved to Utah in high school.

There actually was a big difference in the way Utah Mormons kids lived. I found that they were much more lackadaisical about their Sunday observance (which, now, I believe was just fine), drinking coke (again, no big deal). But the worst thing I saw was a social caste system (including names for the groups) at the the High School I went to (based mostly on what you wore, who you associated with, and where you lived), and a lot of hypocrisy. Maybe it was just a weird culture at my high school. But I also found the culture at BYU rather irritating. Holier-than-thou attitudes abounded. (I probably was a bit that way, too, lol).

Now I've been in Utah so long, and out of the church so long, I couldn't really compare Mormonism her to how Mormonism is anywhere else. But I do know that when I was growing up in Vegas, Mormons were more strict.

My biggest complaint here is that Mormons just assume that EVERYONE is Mormon, or should be.

Familiarity breeds indifference (more than contempt by the way), and thus in Utah and areas where there are concentrated pockets of Mormons you will find lackadaisical attitudes.

It is very much a Mormon trait to judge others. Those outside TSCC and those inside TSCC. In this way, Mormonism is the most UN-CHRISTLIKE church there is on the face of the earth.

True. False. Somewhere in between... One of the fruits (which is rotten) is the constant judgement of others. Jesus would not dig this about His church.

imaworkinonit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> My biggest complaint here is that Mormons just
> assume that EVERYONE is Mormon, or should be.

Or would if they weren't so weak willed and unable to live the word of wisdom.

Or want to be but are too lazy to live the superior standards.

Growing up in So Cal I thought the mormons were super cool and didn't try to be pompous; even my high school principle used the word "crap". That didn't mean they weren't occasionally above flirt to convert.

Funny thing is how many moved to Utah/Idaho after they got married, because almost all of them went to BYU...because, you know....Mother Ship...

My experience has been that people from CA generally think they are better than everyone at everything. So, no surprise CA mormons think they are better. It's a way of life in CA.

There are 39 million Californians, most who came from other places, a very large number from other countries. They may have a basis to judge about Utah being a s__thole of intolerance and stupidity, but I don't think most Californians think they are better than other people.

Exactly. I am not better than other people; I am just better than Utahns. ;)

I always heard the opposite... that the CA mormons were the cool, laid back mormons, while the Utah Mormons had a strictness only beat by the Arizona Mormons.

It reminds me of grandparents talking about walking two miles one way to school, in the snow, up hill...

(Early morning seminary at the church vs. Utah kids traipsing across the street from high school to seminary at 1:00 as part of their "released time" school schedule.)

Sacrifice vs. No sacrifice...

On the other hand, Mormonism permeates most aspects of work/school/politics in Utah.

I grew up in Utah and have lived all over the country. I live in Northern San Diego County Beach town, most of the members in the wards I attended were not too offensive but many of them if not most were recent Utah transplants so very little different from Utah mormons except that they had learned to get along with Non-mormons. The town I live in has a laid back, lets all just surf together whether spongers, short boards or longboards kind of vibe and that was in the local wards too among members. Stake leaders tend to be over the top righteous a$$-holes aimed at becoming GAs and several recently have.

Most Socal Fo-Mos I meet are pretty cool.

It makes no difference where they are from they are a "peculiar people." We out here in Texas thought there was something wrong with Utah Mormons. They were especially peculiar.

I don't know about California Mormons, but I live in Arizona and can tell you about Arizona Mormons. There are two conflicting sides of Arizona Mormons.

Side A: "We are more valiant than Utah Mormons! Those people in Utah don't know how easy they have it. Up in Utah, it is easy to be a Mormon. Everybody is doing it. They are just on auto pilot. But we Mormons of Arizona are the dedicated Mormons. We have to go against the grain and be really committed to practice our religion in an area where we are a minority."

Side B: "We are a lot cooler and easier to get along with than Utah Mormons. They are a bunch of sticks in the mud. Wet blankets. They act like "holier than thou" Nazis. We know how to blend in with the crowd, get along with people of all faiths, and not stick out like a sore thumb. We know how to have a good time and not sweat the small stuff."

You nailed it! This was exactly the duplicitous complaining about "Utah Mormons" I ran into on my mission in California. And usually those that complained about "Utah Mormons" were d-bags themselves.

the "better" mormons are the ones who live in areas where mormons are not the majority.
They actually seem to possess a little decency.

uhio Mormons are pretty cool.

In my medium-sized Kentucky city (Richmond,) there is one Mormon ward house. As an apostate, I have so far had no desire to check that out. But... I do have a curiosity as to how much these isolated TBM's have in common with my former Utah Valley Mormon environment. Maybe it's way different? After all, they are a minority here.. Kentucky is a polyglot of Christian sects. They are quite religious generally, but keep to themselves because there are so many different groups, Baptist, Pentacostal, Catholic, Methodist. Maybe I'll go over there to the Mormons one time out of curiosity. I stress that I'm not flirting with the idea of rejoining them! I'm a hard atheist now. I just enjoy studying and analyzing all religions. Maybe I could get some of them to become apostates!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2015 08:38PM by rationalist01.

Grew up in Oregon and it was the same thing. Oregon Mormons were cool and laid back, Utah Mormons were weird and socially awkward.

Ok Utah people....... I know your state is beautiful , yadda

yadda yadda. I'm just glad , ever so glad that I was born and

raised in CAlifornia. I sort of went through culture shock when

I first had to go to Utah. Sorry.

From the heart of Happy Valley and served in Shitramento California. Members would give me shit about being from Utah all the time. I learned most the Mormons there were just like the Mormons in Utah. Some were over the top orthodox. Some were more laid back and closer to jack mormon type. They thought they were so wonderful and righteouss that they were "building the kingdom outside of zion." All the kids had Mormon clicks at school. They only really socialized with other mormons. The Tongan kids in sacramento were just like the Tongan kids in salt lake. They grew up in the rougher neighborhoods and were exposed to gang life. I met plenty of awkward and social retarded people. They had more opportunity for "missionary work." Good for them. At least Utah mormons don't piss off their neighbors like california mormons do. Members outside of Utah are way more burned out than Utah Mormons because of missionary work. Yup way more laid back... Then they pissed everyone off with prop 8. Mormons are mormon wherever you go.

In general California Mormons seem better. Utah Mormons have a special blend of weirdness and fervor.