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Posted by: finnan haddie ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 01:54AM

I've seen a few posts here referencing hell, as in "I thought I was going to hell", "my MP said 'you're going to hell'" etc etc.

But I thought Mormons didn't believe in hell?

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Posted by: isthechurchtrue ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 02:02AM

Hell in Mormonism is called Outer Darkness. They believe in it but believe that few people will go there (Mostly just people who break their Temple Covenants).

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Posted by: finnan haddie ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 05:47AM

Interesting.

So there are some things not covered by the atonement? Does blood atonement fit in here somewhere?

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Posted by: rhgc ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 11:47AM

If you resign prior to "breaking temple covenants" doesn't this avoid "outer darkness". Upon resignation or upon excommunication aren't the covenants voided? Hence, if one were even to join another church, it is not apostasy. Similarly with calling out the TSCC authorities for lying.

One more point: the "covenants" were entered under duress.

BTW, I do believe in Hell - it is where one would find JS, BY, etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2015 11:49AM by rhgc.

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Posted by: madalice ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 02:18AM

When hubby and I broke the news that we were leaving mormonism,
the first words we heard were: You're being controlled by satan.

Yeah, not so fast there bucky. If we knew anything, it was what it felt like to be controlled by outside forces. Aka, the mormon church.

Nope, WE were finally the ones in control.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 10:47AM

I got out of hell when I "unbaptised" myself.

Those in hell generally don't realize it.

They are focused on the "after-life"/ (so called) "eternity"/ (aka future), and forgetting about right now.

They are so deluded that they generally rarely consider that eternity has no beginning or end, therefore hell does not begin in the future and heaven might be right now or it may never come.

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Posted by: blueorchid ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 10:53AM

"Denying the Holy Ghost" will get you a ticket to outer darkness with the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth for eternity!


Do murderers and rapists and con men go there? No. The engineers of genocide? Those who torture and maim? Kidnappers? No. Will Hitler be there? No.

It's place for those who were simply against the Mormon church.

Outer Darkness is reserved for those who used their own brain, trusted their intellect, and examined the Mormon church and saw what it was. Their reward. Extreme pain forever from their loving Heavenly Father.

I'm trying to think of what says CULT more than this but I'm not getting any ideas yet.

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Posted by: jiminycricket ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 11:19AM

Mormon Doctrine:

. . . Outer Darkness (which is hell with Lucifer and his body-less hosts) is reserved for those who have had their "Calling and Election Made Sure" also known as "The Second Anointing" and then he/she commits one of two sins: murder and denying the Holy Ghost (whatever that means). Jesus' atonement can't save you in that scenario.

Why?

(1) Because Jesus allegedly tells the prophet who can have their SA (because of your righteousness) and if you then commit one of the two UNPARDONABLE sins, you're toast! and

(2) Because of your righteousness Jesus cannot withhold himself from you. If you have then received a "sure knowledge" (a personal visitation) from Jesus, he then can't save you from one of the UNPARDONABLE sins.

Just ask Tom Phillips.

Of course, that is not what the Book of Mormon teaches. It teaches the heaven/hell concept. This other convoluted doctrine was invented later by Smith & Co. when the three degrees of glory was added. I guess God FORGOT to tell the BoM prophets to write down the real story. (sarcasm)

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Posted by: Chump ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 12:44PM

This is what I remember being taught. Besides Satan and his minions, there MIGHT be a handful of people in outer darkness...only those that had a sure knowledge and then denied it...prophets that had seen Jesus and then turned around and said he didn't exist. If I were God, hell would be reserved for false prophets.

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Posted by: cognitivedissonance ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 11:27AM

From my perspective, I see 2 god's either he loves us conditionally (Fear Based) and the other unconditionally (Love Based).

It isn't hard for me to split these into the traditional Jesus and Satan model.

Mormonism is clearly a Fear based religion, ergo God of the Mormon Church is Satan.

The unconditional love (Jesus) just wants us to be nice to each other and evolve spiritually. No interference unless you ask for guidance. But then I'm not even sure about that.

For now I am comfortable with that paradigm.

I don't believe in Heaven or Hell. I believe there is an afterlife but nothing like religion teaches.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 11:32AM

My comeback line would be "see y'all there"!!

RB

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Posted by: shortbobgirl ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 12:35PM

I just smile and say all my friends will be there, we won't miss you.

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Posted by: finnan haddie ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 12:41PM

So basically, if Mormon theology is correct, I need to avoid joining the Mormon church at all costs, as getting baptised Mormon is the only way I can possibly end up in hell. Have I got that right?

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 12:47PM

It seems so

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Posted by: snowball ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 12:46PM

Well there's a lot of hell in the BOM for not believing in hell.

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Posted by: outclassed ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 12:53PM

I had the thought the other day that "mormon heaven doesn't really seem worth all the trouble..."

and I felt some guilt (still deprogramming)

and then I felt a massive amount of relief

Hard to explain...

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Posted by: finnan haddie ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 03:34PM

I absolutely agree with you. Celestial Kingdom sounds like hell to me!

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Posted by: michael ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 01:29PM

Maybe you should ask them for a ticket either to the city in Michigan or the island in the Caribbean? (two actual places)

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Posted by: shortbobgirl ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 01:37PM

Take the Caribbean, the city in Michigan is nothing to write home about.

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Posted by: cognitivedissonance ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 01:54PM

Yep, that was my MP and that's what he said. I smiled back after he said it. I thought to myself "Wow, I accomplished something and he noticed!" I wrote the dialogue in my Journal so I could remember the moment.

I do admit, I was a lazy missionary, I didn't like the experience.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2015 01:55PM by cognitivedissonance.

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Posted by: isthechurchtrue ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 02:29PM

The doctrines of outer darkness and blood atonement are to gain control over the members. In Mormonism even Atheists go to the lowest degree of heaven but ex-Mormons go to outer darkness. Mormons say that the higher a person goes the harder they fall therefore outer darkness is only for Mormons who have received the "blessings" of Mormonism but have rejected it.

Mormons complain about the "cheap grace" of Christianity but in Mormonism you don't even have to be a Mormon to get into heaven. You don't even have to believe in God. They have a universalist idea of salvation which means that basically everyone will be saved. Outer darkness (hell) exists in Mormonism but it is more of a political prison for ex-Mormons who dared to leave the cult.

In Mormonism there are 2 unforgivable sins. They are murder and denying the witness of the Holy Ghost. Mormons assume that after a person receives their Endowments in the Temple then they leave that is denying the witness they received from the Holy Ghost about the Mormon Church. Yet there is the problem that a person could be re-baptized after resigning or being ex-communicated from the Mormon Church.

My problem with Mormon theology is that it is very convoluted and contradictory so it is mostly unintelligible.

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: August 25, 2015 02:55PM

Talk about going to hell, sitting through a 3 hour Sunday block or a temple session is hell on earth wouldn't ya say?

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