who thinks BoM story is fantasy, Cumoms, Cureloms, Elephats never existed in Americas, yet comfortably believes in Nephilims, Garden of Eden and existence of Hell.
Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, Mr. Solo! My point being that belief in something that common sense says isn't possible, doesn't disuade the believer. Just like your fictional $50 which you have no intention of paying. No "exxageration" intended.
Me, I couldn't ignore the challenge (made by a Mormon) to evaluate my own faith with the same standards I was applying to the Mormon faith -- and the result of that evaluation is that I'm an agnostic atheist now. But many Christians are just fine with ignoring that challenge. (Something which confuses me but that's normal for me.)
quinlansolo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > who thinks BoM story is fantasy, Cumoms, Cureloms, > Elephats never existed in Americas, yet > comfortably believes in Nephilims, Garden of Eden > and existence of Hell.
It's early, pardon my confusion (haven't had my tea yet). Are you saying that Christians don't believe in Joseph's Myths but do believe in Biblical concepts? Wouldn't that pretty much be a definition of fundamental Christians?
I'm going to fix my tea, then perhaps all will become clear in my befuddled brain.
That puts him WAAAYYY up on any other deities I've researched. Of course it's usually just him trying to say I owe him money -- but still, it's an answer. :D
I hung on to my Christianity because I loved the teachings of Jesus. I church-shopped, I prayed, I defended. Over time, the critical thinking skills that got me free from the Cult helped me to see that churches are a manmade creation dedicated to their own survival.
Harold Camping (and I'm no fan at all, he's a trainwreck you can't look away from)...anyway, Rev. Camping is a lone wolf and pretty soundly hated by most evangelicals because he crossed the line. He said the churches were unnecessary. Once a person has been introduced to a personal Savior, said Rev. Camping, that was that. Furthermore he had the gall to support his opinion with biblical scripture.
Christian love and tolerance evaporated and Camping found himself on the stoop fellowshipwise.
There are plenty of believing Christians here. People don't start abandoning religion just because they realize Joseph Smith is a douche. In fact, his self-aggrandizing and the abortion of a religion it produced makes regular Christianity look innocent and pure by comparison.
It takes time to sort it all out and there's no trophy for speed, so relax and have a cup of coffee. We're friendly to all here while maintaining the razorlike irreverent wit of Raptor Jesus and the historical inside-jokiness of SLCabbie. If you are a believing Christian, you will find a cohort here too, as long as you can stand hearing stuff you don't believe in.
For me, it's a great lesson in tolerance and helps you undo the damage the cult has done.
I had the exact opposite reaction. I realized what a douche Joseph Smith was and saw the exact same qualities in every other religion. Once I traded spirituality for rationality I changed and there were no tradebacks.
There are some differences between mainstream Christianity and other Christian religions such as Mormonism, but not enough to justify belief in Christ or deity...
I could no longer believe in the ridiculous stories told in the BOM and in mormondumb. I had just begun using my critical thinking skills, and I considered myself to be a Christian. Now that I am used to "critical thinking", I consider myself to be an agnostic, although I do believe there is a life after death.
I really can't understand how anyone could drop Mormonism for some other Christian religion. If there's one thing I credit Mormonism for, it does a good job of "trying" to make sense of a religion that doesn't otherwise make any sense at all.
True Christianity was what led me out of Mormonism. I'm a born again believer all the way, but I am much more open minded and will always think twice about what I am taught. I am not a blind follower anymore. I also respect non believers more now than I did when I was TBM.
No, I read the whole post. When I say I am a Christian it means i believe in the Bible as a literal translation. And I don't believe in the BOM. So what don't you understand?
(mythology) in the Bible any more than they believe the wild stories in the BoM. Virgins don't get pregnant. People don't rise from the dead. There was never a flood that covered the whole planet at once. Two of every type of animal could not possibly have fit into an ark and saved the entire life of the planet. A talking snake convinced Eve to eat a fruit? Which creation story do you believe in the Bible -- the one that says Adam was both male and female, or the one that has God making Eve from Adam's rib? But you're saying you believe this stuff literally? Really?
Well, I'm Christian who almost wrote "Sorry folks", I'm not ashamed about it, and since talking about scriptureis not welcome, I try to avoid it. but No! I don't believe in all he stuff the OT stated. I finally read the bible and not a thing in mormonism jives with the bible. I was converted as a kid, believing in God, but never read the bible until adulthood. That's how the Tanners left moism. It was some of their researches, along with other things made me start to search for myself. I guess, as someone said here once said, I'm a biblical Christian.
Nina Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm a biblical Christian.
Please explain, because I have yet to find a christian who totally rejects the bible
It's also very, very rare to find a christian who accepts *the whole* bible as literal truth
so, what you end up with is a whole shedload of groups (estimates range from 30,000 denominations of christianity UPWARDS) and each of these groups takes a pick'n'mix attitude to which bits they regard as truth and which bits are allegorical/metaphorical.
I've read the Bible a handful of times in a handful of languages and it is a completely silly thing to say that the Bible doesn't jive with Mormonism.
The Bible is read exactly how you personally want it to be read. It is so vast a collection of myths, and so vague in many parts, that anybody who reads it will pick the myths that they like and remember them while forgetting the rest.
I could quote you a dozen scriptures now, 5 years after I left Mormonism, that jive perfectly with its doctrine. The Bible does not disprove Mormonism, it only proves that Christians are subjective readers, assuming that they actually ever study the text.
Normally I wouldn't open this can of worms, but I'm cranky and in a lot of pain, so what the fuck? I may as well.
Why does it always have to be Mormonism or nothing? Everyone has different sets of beliefs, whether it's atheism, Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Hindu, Wicca, whathaveyou. Abandoning Mormonism doesn't necessarily mean abandoning spirituality altogether. Life just isn't that cut and fucking dry.
I agree 100% with what anagrammy said: "People don't start abandoning religion just because they realize Joseph Smith is a douche. In fact, his self-aggrandizing and the abortion of a religion it produced makes regular Christianity look innocent and pure by comparison."
Ya! It's kinda like eating icecream. I support: "Either eat ice cream or don't. Put that faux icecream back and get some real ice cream or don't get any at all." Now, that works for me, but I'm sure others eat that faux ice cream all the time and enjoy it. It's not for me, however.
BUT................ some of us have diabetes and reALLY SHOUDNT!! so... i have to eat "fake" ice cream.... "no sugar added" and even that rises my blood sugar a little.... but go without ice cream.... aint gonna happen!! so faux ice cream it is for me..... better than that Faux "news" station!! :)
There are lots of folks who have left Mormonism for other than rational reasons. There are lots who have left for rational reasons, but don't feel the need to apply logic and reason to their other beliefs. Though not a majority, ex Mormon Christians are plentiful. Grant Palmer and Arza Evans come to mind.
To whom did you award the $50?
The great trouble with religion - any religion - is that the religionist, having accepted certain propositions by faith, cannot thereafter judge those propositions by reason. One can bask at the warm fires of faith, or choose to live in the cold reality of reason; one cannot have both.
- Robert Heinlein, Friday
When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized that I was talking to myself.
...that most mainstream Christians don't take every last word of the bible literally. They don't buy their chuch doctrine 100%. They do not obey to the last pronouncement every last pearl of wisdom that drops from their leaders' lips.
Mainstream Christians are encouraged to think for themselves. They are not (for the most part) disciplined or punished for using their brains. They are not denied the official blessings of their respective churches for doing so.
Have you ever actually talked to a mainsteam Christian minister? If you want to have a discussion with him or *her* about how the Garden of Eden story is a metaphor for our disunity with God, he or *she* can have an intelligent conversation with you about that. Because ministers receive collegiate and graduate level training in biblical studies.