The other night I was having a hard time getting to sleep, I kept thinking about some of the things that I have learned about recently. Things that I had always thought were anti mormon lies. I had heard a good deal of things on my mission, but never gave them much weight until the essays started coming out and started looking into myself. My wife couldnt sleep either so I told her that these things were on my mind, specifically JS and his wives. I told her about the essays, she had never heard of them and questioned that I had read this on lds.org. I told her that I had and read them there and then she asked me to show her. I pulled up the essay about polygamy and she read it all. When she was done, I think she was surprised but was very optimistic about it. Polygamy has been something that has always bothered her, but she tried to justify the essay as best as she could. She told me that she didnt understand how it all worked but that it would be sorted out in the afterlife. I told her that JS taking married men's wives was disturbing to me and that the fact that he married a 14 year old didnt sit well with me. She said that marrying that young was something that you did back then and I retorted that 14 year olds didnt marry 38 year old men to which she didnt respond. I explained that JS taking the wives of married men was like saying, you go ahead and take care of her in this life but she is all mine in the afterlife. She said that she understood why it would be hard for me to accept these things and that it really came down to having faith in Jesus.

I told her about the other essays and that on my mission I had told people that these things werent true and here we are 10 years later and now the church is now acknowledging them. I told her that I feel the church has been hiding things and what else will they come out with that I had thought been an "anti mormon lie". She said that she would consider reading the other essays, but at this point she hasnt as far as I know.

On Sunday though, she decided to stay home with me. I asked her if she intended to go to church and she said she wanted to spend the day with me, so maybe there is something there. I feel better about it though now that she knows they are there though. I dont know if her shelf will ever break or if she will always believe, I dont care either way, but at least she knows the information is there now.

Well, this is good news on so many fronts. Rest assured that the wheels are turning on the inside no matter what she says aloud. She can't un-see what she has seen; she can't un-hear what she has heard; she can't un-read what she has read.

And no, it was not common for 14yo girls to marry at that time and place in history, it was very rare. And as you say, not to men two or three times her age. And definitely not as a twenty-seventh wife! Some census records should put that one to rest.

Your reaction -- what else have the 'antis' been right about all along -- is the real damage being done by the essays. They cause uncertainty, and you're left wondering what will be the next shoe to drop.

Some sister missionaries as recently as last April or May told me confidently that the rock-in-a-hat story was not true; that their mission president had told them so. Here we are just four months later and the story is being confirmed along with a photo in the Ensign? Plus the translation essay had long since been published four months ago. Those poor girls -- sorry, young women -- are being overtaken by events WHILE THEY ARE ON THEIR MISSION. Can you imagine?

If there's one thing I absolutely will not abide, it's being told by my boss to present a particular message to the customers when I know it's not so. Finding out later that it was not so, after I've embarrassed myself in public, is even worse.

Anyway, I just wanted to celebrate your one small recent success with you. It may be larger than you think.

JAR

Nicely done.

I think your experience is one we can all learn from. Basically you didn't force the issue, you didn't push it upon her, but you waited until the time was right, and the ground more fertile.

Then you calmly expressed your concerns.

I'm finding the rock in the hat is the next great damaging blow to the church. All those pictures and stories told in church lessons about the urim & thumin, the translation paintings where Joe is staring at physical plates - all gone with the photos of the rock itself released by the church.

I had showed her the stone in the hat article sometime ago when it first came out. She was quiet afterwards and when I pressed her to see what she thought she only told me she didnt know a lot about church history and we moved on. The night I shared with her the essay on polygamy, I also told her about the essay about the Book of Abraham, she didnt say anything about it. I told her there were lots of articles that discussed several topics but was having a hard time remembering what they were at the moment.

I bet the rock in the hat stuff caused her cause for concern. How can it not?

You have gently tended her growing shelf, without trying to force things on it. Ultimately she has to decide for herself if she really wants to look behind the curtain to see the man at the controls, or not.

You have pointed her in the right direction, you have to leave her alone to make the next step, or continue to wait patiently for your next opportunity to have a good discussion.

"I told her that JS taking married men's wives was disturbing to me and that the fact that he married a 14 year old didnt sit well with me. She said that marrying that young was something that you did back then and I retorted that 14 year olds didnt marry 38 year old men to which she didnt respond."

Mormons routinely make this assertion in defending Joseph Smith, and it just doesn't hold any water. Not only was it not normal for a 14-year-old girl to marry a 38-year-old man in those days, it also wasn't normal, or even legal, for an already-married man to marry another woman of any age. TBMs seem to forget all about the fact that Joseph Smith was already married and had children with his legal wife.

Also, the argument that it was okay for Smith to "plural marry" young girls doesn't fly because almost all of the teenage girls Smith "plural married" went on to marry other men after Smith died, as soon as they were old enough to. So it's not like those girls weren't suitable or eligible to marry any other man than Joseph Smith. That means that Smith plural married them for the sole purpose of gaining sexual access to them.

"On Sunday though, she decided to stay home with me. I asked her if she intended to go to church and she said she wanted to spend the day with me, so maybe there is something there."

That's a good sign. Maybe you should plan fun stuff to do together every Sunday, and "wean" her off of the church. You can do lots of fun activities on Sunday that would cost you a lot less than 10% of your income. :-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2015 02:20PM by randyj.

Have patience

From the time I started looking into 'shelf items' and when I decided the church was false was a couple years.

The church puts so much fear into you I looked at it from many directions before I made the leap to leave. Of course, I was the first to leave, so it is a little different than if my spouse was the one telling me the information.

Great work though. Hopefully your wife will be able to see the lies.

TBM's need to find their own way out and the original post is just how you do it. Congratulations on taking this route, because it will work.

If you push from the outside TBM's will push back from the inside. Help them find a way out. Once on the outside they will look back and say, "OMG. What was I thinking?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2015 02:55PM by Doubting Thomas.

"On Sunday though, she decided to stay home with me. I asked her if she intended to go to church and she said she wanted to spend the day with me,"


I would have teared up right then, gave her a hug and whispered a sincere "thank you" in her ear.

HeartSell, you've got HeartSell!

What age people married doesn't matter. Helen was basically
FORCED into a secret, arranged relationship with an already-
married man. She didn't want to do it so JS told her that by
agreeing to it she would ensure the salvation of her entire
family. Notice that this is totally against "normal" Mormon
doctrine. She said, given what was at stake she had to agree to
it. She referred to herself as a sacrificial ewe lamb, not as a
young bride.

As far as the "marriage" went, J.S. didn't take her under his
roof. He didn't support her. He didn't acknowledge her
publicly as a wife (in fact he publicly denied it). This wasn't
NORMAL by any measure of NORMAL marriages anywhere at any time.