Like many wards across the US, the scouts in my ward put flags in front yards as a fundraising activity. If you pay the fee, they put a flag in your yard on certain holidays. They don’t do it for every holiday, but I find it interesting which days they include and exclude. I see that the scout put up flags in my neighborhood today (obviously a day or remembrance, but not a national holiday) and they never put up flags on MLK day (which is a national holiday).

I realize that they need to limit the number of days for flag display. After all, it’s an inconvenience for the scout leaders, the parents, and they scouts themselves, but why skip MLK day? It can’t be because it’s too dark, and the weather might be bad, because they do display flag on President’s day. It’s also noteworthy that they didn’t put up flags on MLK day prior to 2001, so it’s not due to the addition of another day.

Maybe it’s unfair for me to suspect racism, but I don’t think TSCC has earned any benefit of doubt.

I don't think it's unfair to suspect at all, given their history.

Next time you see them, *ask* them why they don't do flags for the national holiday that is MLK day.
Their answers would be most enlightening, I suspect :)

-1

Where are you? Arizona? Utah? Idaho? MLK day is highly affected by region. Utah and Arizona hardly acknowledge it, and call it "Civil Rights Day"--which they likely don't believe in, anyway. They likely would not do it in North Dakota, either, because all the Blacks in the state can probably be counted on one hand.

I agree with you. And I will add that African-americans comprise less than 10% of the populations in both Arizona and Utah.

If they are going to put up flags at all, then ALL important days should be included including MLK day etc.

It is either all or none. It isn't like the CULT cares about inconvenience for the scout leaders. Since when has the CULT cared about any inconvenience to anyone?

BTW, there is nothing subtle about the CULT's blatant racism. They have a University named after someone who could have written the rules and regulations for the KKK after all.

++100! racisim is just so much of mormondom's heritage. It's hard to get past it.

The Boy Scouts of America is a non-profit, non-governmental group that doesn't have to raise flags at all. In addition, there is no federal or state law that I know of requiring flags to be raised on any holidays.

So, do I think the behavior is racist? Yes. Does it matter a whole lot to me? Not really, for the reasons cited.

blindguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Boy Scouts of America is a non-profit,
> non-governmental group that doesn't have to raise
> flags at all. In addition, there is no federal or
> state law that I know of requiring flags to be
> raised on any holidays.
>
> So, do I think the behavior is racist? Yes. Does
> it matter a whole lot to me? Not really, for the
> reasons cited.
==========================================
I agree, except for one thing... the Scouts- or whomever
is in charge of the project- are ever so subtly planting
seeds of racism in the next generation.
You can bet these boys'll notice whose day
doesn't rate a flag!

So yeah, me it does bother.

I would agree, blindguy, except that this is a fundraiser and the boys are charging for the service of putting up flags on holidays. They do this in my neighborhood. I think we pay $50 per year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2015 02:18PM by want2bx.

The Scouts that put the flags up in the front yards down here in Houston are not Mormon.

I'm not sure they put up a flag for MLK day, but I'm not 100% sure. They just seem to go for the big holidays, where everyone is off, not the government employees. Except flag day, they are up for that, even though it is a rinky-dink holiday.

I don't think they are being racist, just prioritizing which days to put the flags up. They are up today, but then they never took them down after labor day. When normally they would take them down.

I think you're grasping at straws looking for something to be offended by.


Displaying a flag on MLK day makes zero sense to me... not because it's not an important day, but because it's not a holiday for patriotic propaganda and celebrating nationalism.


Do they put flags out for Arbor Day? May Day? Indigenous Peoples Day (Sometimes called Columbus Day)? Thanksgiving?

+11

They put up flag a few days ago for Labor Day. Is that more of a "holiday for patriotic propaganda" than the day that recognizes the struggle for equality for all Americans?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2015 01:39PM by CrispingPin.

In all fairness most people get Labor Day and Memorial Day mixed up... But yeah, flags on labor day seems odd to me.

I would expect the september flags to be sold for 9/11.

A follow-up to my original post:

More than a decade ago (when I was still a TBM) I asked the newly called scout leader about the selection of holidays for flags (and specifically about Martin Luther King Day). He was a very open minded guy—a good candidate for being an exmo. He told me that MLK day would absolutely be one of the days for flags as long as he was scout leader. So, for a year or two, flags were displayed on MLK day. It was a conscious decision by the next scout leader to discontinue the practice.

Oh, of course racism...isn't everything?

they're kids, ffs

I suppose everyone's experiences are different

mine, for example:

I did the flag planting thing as a young man heavily involved in scouting along with being tbm. From the age of 12 on I participated in doing this with my troop (which was the ward) until I turned 18.

MLK day was most certainly included on the list of days wherein the flag was to be placed in the member's yard by 6am who had paid the $30 - whether you could find the stupid pipe-hole or not...

And this was in small-town hickville Arizona (I'm not nearly half as old as most of you). I know MLK day was included because it was the first day of each year we were to do the flag thing and I remember how flippin' cold it was!

I can honestly say I didn't care either way what day or who it was for at that time - it paid (sorta) for scout camp and I was a tbm kid - I did what I was told. It just made sense that we would fly the flag on this holiday. As well, the leaders rarely if ever participated in the actually deliveries. Priests drove us around harassing and teasing us, making us do all the dirty work. Then, when I reached 16, I was the assistant "in charge" and had a difficult time getting any fellow scouts to help. I usually just ended-up doing all of the deliveries and pick-ups myself in my old beat up Ford.

Nobody cared about all that work then and none of you care now.
Mormons are just racist, amiright?

If you don't like the product or service, simply decline next time...

smdh

I think you are looking very hard for something to be offended by if this offends you.

Scouts don't have a monopoly on flags. Put up your own.

Scouts who do this in my part of the world don't put up flags on Thanksgiving, Chrstmas, New Years Day or Columbus Day. They do it on Memorial Day, July 4, Sept. 11 and Veterans Day. You know, the patriotic holiday.

I have lived in more than one town that was very closely associated with MLK. The MLK home that is run by the government has a flag in front. The one that is run by a private donation does not.

A church he was very closely associated with puts out flags on the patriotic holidays but not on the MLK holiday. I don't see how you can make a case that this is evidence of your local scouts being racist unless you want to make the same case against Dexter Avenue Baptist in Montgomery, Ala.

I'm not offended, but I do know someone (then active, now not) who made the comment "yeah, same old church." So people do notice.

I do put out my own flag on most national holidays (I often forget Flag Day until the afternoon). I haven't paid the fee to the scouts for many years. I used to be a reliable financial supporter of the boy scouts, but for a variety of reasons, they don't get any money from me these days.

There are two very important reasons why I feel I'm neither "looking very hard for something to be offended by" nor "grasping at straws." 1) I personally knew the people who made the decisions to first add, and then discontinue, flags on MLK day. it was deliberate decision in my ward, and 2) Like I said before, the LDS church's history of racism (and particularly the leadership's attitude towards civil rights) doesn't give them any benefit of doubt.

How come there is no Susan B day?

I don't know about that.

I do know that the attorneys I used to work for would work on MLK day and made a point of letting everyone know they worked.

OMG - that's So Raven! I mean racist!



wait, I don't get it

Here's the follow-up. When I hand delivered her resume to two individuals. The first one read it through and exclaimed "she's a @#$%&." The second partner read through her resume, noted that she was black, and told me about the time he had to retake the driving portion of the driver's license test and was relieved he didn't have to test with the black tester at dmv.

They wouldn't interview her but did hire another mormon dispirit.

(I should give credit - the repressed gay mormon attorney was willing to sit down and interview her.)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2015 10:25PM by thingsithink.