https://www.vermontcountrystore.com/anthon-berg-top-shelf-chocolate-liqueur-bottle-collection/product/43096


someone tattle taled, and I was shocked this was an issue.

This was the beginning of the end for me. I quit coming to church.

I was determined not worthy over a piece of candy.

btw. they are delicious. my favorite company to order from. excellent customer service.

Not that it matters, but that is why a lot of Mormons assume the reason people leave is because they can't keep their "standards" and wanted to sin.

It's so petty of them to be watching and tattling all the time.

They did you a favor.

A former bishop did that for me (tithing disagreement), he just does not know that it was a favor. Now that I am past the TR issue, I have realized that it was a kindness. To no longer play that game is like walking away from a prison where you have spent most of your life.

I'm guessing that the 'sin' of alcohol is mostly in the breaking of a rule, not so much in the quantity & potency of whatever the sinner has swallowed.

But how come I have never heard of church warnings about making sure to only take over-the-counter (OTC) medications that are alcohol-free?

Apparently it's okay to go to the temple pleasantly buzzed on any of the below noted OTC medications:

Drug: %
Creamcote #1, #2, #3, #4: 10.00
Novahistine Expectorant: 7.50
Daycare: 10.00
Novafed: 7.50
Demazin: 8.50
Novafed A: 5.00
Dimacol: 4.75
Nyquil: 25.00
Dimetapp: 2.30
Pediquil: 5.00
Demetaine Decongestant: 2.30
Pertussin: 8.50
Dr. Drake’s: 2.25
Pinex: 2.00
Dristan Cough: 12.00
Quelidrine: 25.00
Dristan Ultra: 25.00
Quiet Nite: 3.50
Endotussin-NN: 4.00
Robitussin: 3.50
Formula 44 Cough: 10.00
Robitussin AC: 3.50
Formula 44 D: 20.00
Robitussin CF: 1.40
2/G: 3.50
Robitussin DAC: 1.40
2/G DM: 5.00
Robitussin DM: 1.40
GG-Cen: 10.00
Robitussin PE: 1.40
GG-Tussin: 3.50
Romilar III: 20.00
G-Tussin DM: 1.40
Romilar CF: 20.00
Halls: 22.00
Sudifed Cough Syrup: 2.40
Head & Chest: 5.00
Terpin Hydrate with DM: 40.00
Marcodol with Decaprayn: 5.00
Tolu-Sed: 10.00
Naldeon Dx: 5.00
Tolu-Sed DM: 5.00
Night Relief 25.00
Tonecol: 7.00
NN Cough Syrup: 5.00
Triaminic Expectorant: 5.00
Nortussin: 3.50
Trind-DM: 5.00
Novahistine Cough: 7.50
Vicks Cough: 5.00
Novahistine Cough/Cold: 5.00
Viromed Liquid: 16.60
Novahistine DH: 5.00
Wal-Ac:t 5.00
Novahistine DMX: 10.00
Wal-Phed: .087


The numbers are %, not "proof", meaning the winner in this group, Terpin Hydrate with DM, would be 80 proof, which sounds way gnarlier than 40%...

So in theory, a faithful temple attendee could be legally drunk every time he/she went through the veil!

I used to get nasty coughs as a kid, and we used to buy “Turpin hydrate with codeine”. It knocked out my cough, was basically alcohol and codeine, and was legal at the time.

No wonder you were staggering as you walked up to me!!

alcohol drink, brandy, I told him, "I've been drinking NyQuil for years. This isn't much different." (I had a lot of flu and strep during my stressful years of raising my kids and working two jobs.)

I made the acquaintance of an LDS Navy lieutenant in 1968-69 while on operations in Vietnam. (He was a naval gunfire spotter with us Marines.) It's been a while, but I believe --AT THAT TIME -- hot chocolate was forbidden to him. Was cocoa/hot chocolate once included in the forbidden "heated beverages" category?

Cocoa envelopes were one of the items that showed up in various C-ration meal packages, and were highly sought. We introduced this Mormon to cocoa. He took to it with great avidity, and eagerly traded off some of his rations for the cocoa.

I wonder, now, if that might have led to his questioning the WoW, and maybe LDS itself. He actually helped direct me out of Christian Science. We had lots of conversations--I was just a P.f.c., he was an O-1 or 0-2--and that included religion. He told me about this unique American spiritual leader, the holy book that was given to him, that this was God's final revelation to Mankind, and that his church offered the one true way to Heaven, etc.

And I told him how Mary Baker Eddy was this unique American spiritual leader, and the holy book that was given to her, that this was God's final....Hmmmm....

My first insights into the nature of cults.

But my question, seriously: was cocoa on the disapproval list in the late 1960s, and might this have been his individual and/or a Utah practice?

The best I can come up with after extensive being awake today is yes, no, maybe...

You should check the appropriate LDS maps to determine what Ward, District, or Mission you live in and then contact your bishop, branch president, or mission president, as he or she (hahahaha!) is directly in charge of your salvation, be ye mormon or not!

Good luck!

Put down the cough syrup, Jesus. That stuff expired decades ago.

There was considerable fluidity regarding the WoW both in the late 1960s and generally.

The standard rule regarding hot drinks was that they included only tea and coffee. But that was problematic. First, as the church expanded in Asia it needed to come up with a formula that worked there. What was the difference between soup and herbal tea and caffeinated tea? Ultimately the church decided that caffeine was the key and that wheat tea and the like were okay although that rule was not emphasized--or even recognized by the vast majority of American Mormons--in the States, where the rule was to avoid the appearance of evil and hence all teas.

Meanwhile, one of my close relatives was set apart for a high position by an apostle (much hated on this board) with an open bottle of Coke on his desk, which he had been drinking when the apostle arrived. There was no problem because caffeinated sodas were not "coffee or tea" or even "hot drinks."

But there were in the late 1960s and 1970s a minority of Mormons who thought that true Mormons, faithful Mormons, should live by the explicit word of God, meaning that hot chocolate should be avoided. The same was true of garments: true Mormons wore the old head-to-toe things and not the risque knee to shoulder things. These "extreme" views never had church approval, but they had a following.

By the 1980s the anti-Coke crowd had more or less won the battle. I think the change stemmed from the BYU juggernaut. From, I'm guessing, the middle 1960s onward the Lord's University did not allow caffeinated beverages to be sold or consumed on the Lord's campus, in His student union building, or in His cafeterias, where they might have contaminated the Lord's french fries and maple syrup. After a generation or two, the Lord's graduates had come to dominate Mormon culture and Coke was generally shunned--although said relative, now even hier [sic] in the hierarchy, and our larger family continued to imbibe openly.

Obviously all of this went away when the Lord's present (and hence superior) prophet, yea even Thomas S. Monson, was revealed to be a Diet Pepsi addict. Once that happened, we were back to the old "hot drinks" equals coffee and tea rule. So, in summary, the opposition to hot cocoa was a minority view in some parts of the church that was viewed by the regular church as pharisaical and unnecessary. But what you experienced was definitely something that happened in the 1960s and 1970s.

Does that help?

In ye olde tymes, "hot drinks" was taken literally and included both hot chocolate and hot soup.

"We are told, and very plainly too, that hot drinks — tea, coffee, chocolate, cocoa and all drinks of this kind are not good for man. We are also told that alcoholic drinks are not good, and that tobacco when either smoked or chewed is an evil. We are told that swine's flesh is not good, and that we should dispense with it…" (George Q. Cannon, 4/7/1868, Journal of Discourses 12:221).

"My theory is, that if we wish to raise a healthy, noble looking, intellectual and perfect race of men and women we must feed our children properly. We must prevent the use by them of every article that is hurtful or noxious in its nature. We must not permit them to drink liquor or hot drinks, or hot soups or to use tobacco or other articles that are injurious." (George Q. Cannon, 4/7/1868, Journal of Discourses 12:223).

https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/JournalOfDiscourses3/id/9775

Yes, but that was over 50 years before the WoW became mandatory. Cannon was an outlier in an era when Brigham Young and other priesthood leaders drank alcohol and coffee regularly and the church had investments in the production and sale of wine, beer, and liquors.

When the church elevated God's advice to the status of a commandment, the only definition of "hot drinks" that was enforced was coffee and tea.

I don't know when they decided to take advantage of BY's silly behaviors when he was trying to erect a holy kingdom, but ghawd's very own website says that the WoW became a commandment in 1851:

"Although the Word of Wisdom
was received on 27 February 1833,
its acceptance by individual
members of the Church was gradual.
On 9 September 1851, some eighteen
years after it was given, the
Patriarch to the Church, John
Smith delivered a talk in
General Conference on the Word of
Wisdom.  During his address,
President Brigham Young arose and
proposed that all Saints formally
covenant to abstain from tea,
coffee, tobacco, whiskey, and
“all things mentioned in the Word
of Wisdom” (“Minutes of the General
Conference,” Millennial Star, 1
Feb. 1852, p. 35). The motion was
accepted unanimously and became
binding as a commandment for all
Church members thereafter."

--https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/section-89-the-word-of-wisdom?lang=eng

Of course, this is pure horse-puckery, and it doesn't take much to prove it.  The only thing BY cared about at that juncture was that the Saints stop the flow of gold and silver to the east coast in exchange for what he was banning, coffee, tea, and fine alcoholic beverages. Deseret was going broke because they had nothing to sell to the eastern part of the country; there was less and less gold and silver to back the Deseret dollar, and it was becoming worthless as a medium of exchange.

The cited text from the church's website is the best they can do to justify the supposed elevation of D&C 89 from the status of a suggestion to a commandment, the flaunting of which keeps you out of the temple if you admit to it...heathen!

You'll be happy to know that that same paragraph is now proudly ensconced in the Wikipedia article on the WoW. Did you do that, EOD? Did you update the church's entry with the latest version of "the truth?"

In any case, your work is not done. Here are some of the passages that follow:

1) In 1860, Young counseled those chewing tobacco in church meetings to at least be discreet and not excessive, but did not charge users with sin.[21] By 1870, he ended the practice of chewing and spitting tobacco in the Salt Lake Tabernacle.[22]

2) Young . . . also owned and maintained a bar in Salt Lake City for the sale of alcoholic beverages to non-Mormon travelers, on the theory that it was better for LDS Church authorities to run such establishments than for outsiders.[24]

3) . . . George Albert Smith, apostle and later church president, "took brandy for medicinal reasons", Anthon H. Lund, First Counselor in the First Presidency, "enjoyed Danish beer and currant wine", Charles W. Penrose, Second Counselor in the First Presidency, "occasionally served wine", Matthias F. Cowley, apostle, "enjoyed Danish beer and currant wine", Brigham Young, Jr. and John Henry Smith, both apostles, argued in 1901 "that the Church ought not interdict beer, or at least not Danish beer", and Emmeline B. Wells, of the Relief Society presidency (and who was later president of the Relief Society), "drank an occasional cup of coffee".

4) As church president, Joseph F. Smith encouraged stake presidents to be liberal when issuing temple recommends with old men who used tobacco and old ladies who drank tea. Of those who violated the revelation, it was mainly habitual drunkards that were excluded from the temple.[25]

5) . . . both the 1928 and 1934 editions of the Handbook — but not previous editions—listed "liquor drinking" and "bootlegging" among the "transgressions which are ordinarily such as to justify consideration by the bishop's court." To these the 1934 edition also added "drunkenness."[25]


So your job is not finished, my friend. You must clean up all those pesky "facts" and present the world with a truth that Boyd (all hail) would find more "useful."

Chop chop!

I lost my temple recommend, too, selena ann. But idiot that I am, it was for apostasy and not for anything fun.

Isn't that the best $24.95 you ever spent?

yes it is.

The tattling on others is really encouraged and impressed upon the youth. At BYU, it's called the Honor Code. I'm not sure if the tattling on your missionary companion has an official name, but the mission presidents emphasized that if you know that your assigned companion (or even if you see another missionary breaking a mission rule) then it's your duty to rat them out or else!!!

They have this convoluted notion that you're just as guilty as the main perpetrator. I got nailed on my mission because some greenhorn (fresh out of the MTC) casually mentioned that he was sleeping in and he felt bad. This was in the hallway on a Sunday morning. I didn't know him, but he confessed this to the mission president and name drooped me.

I got called in and found myself being disciplined because I didn't care enough about my fellow "elder" to report his poor behavior.

Chinese students sent on behalf of the CCP must feel right at home.

Teachers tell even very young children, "No tattling." I have always said, if someone is hurting you (or your property,) or calling you a bad name, I need to know. Otherwise, go find something to do. If a six year old can understand this, so can a Mormon adult.

their collars while I, the nevermo from NY regularly wore jeans to class and managed to dodge the honor police.

However, I was once denied food by a cafeteria worker in the Canon Center on a Sunday because I was not wearing a dress.

Force a trial - and be sure to bring chocolate covered coffee beans to serve as refreshments.

Many years ago, my brother told me of a rare instance of common sense that came from a Mormon chaplain in Vietnam. Apparently, there had been a couple of instances on the battlefield where they had run out of water, but there was beer available. The chaplain was asked if it was OK to drink beer in a situation like that. He advised the Mormon soldiers to not get drunk, but he said if beer was the only thing available to drink in a hot jungle, it was OK to drink it.

I’m sure some LDS leaders would say that it’s better to die from thirst than to take a sip of beer.

Yeah the fuddy duddy’s can’t accept that the converts drank alcohol on the ship coming over. You drank grog or ale because the water wasn’t safe to drink. Also they drank wine at the Kirkland Temple opening. I’m sure this would explain some of the visions people had.

The modern church is a different duck than the original one was. The word of wisdom came from the temperance movement in which Emma Smith was part of. There was a drinking problem in the church and the women were tired of the tobacco spit on the floor.

What became some good advice became a modern day witch hunt by the obsessed fuddy duddys. The temple is the fraternal order of the fuddy duddys and it’s polluted the church with silliness. Not that it wasn’t silly before.

Believe me. In the military especially in a war zone a lot of the church stuff goes out the window. Green garments exist to make the fuddy duddy’s back at home think soldiers actually wear them. Oh and we cuss and tell some of the most vile jokes. When you are a trained killer who’s mission is to grease people and break shit and you are in the thick of it, the church is a fantasy back in La La Land somewhere.

Sounds like your bishop or stake president is an old fuddy duddy. I had a bishop that kept beer in his pantry because he used it to make pancakes.

Funny story......

For a while I lived in Brazil.
In Copacabana was the largest candy store I had ever visited.

I couldn't make up my mind what to get, the I saw this box marked Napoleons.

So I said to my 19 year old self, oh chocolate, strawberry and vanilla chocolates! Just like the Ice Cream!

Got the box home, opened it with lots of anticipation and was bitterly disappointed.

There was a bitter, strong liquid inside and it wasn't chocolate, strawberry nor vanilla.

I did notice that if I had a few before bed I slept better.

After I had gone through several boxes over a few weeks I asked my Brazilian friend why they called the chocolates Napoleons since they had neither chocolate, strawberry nor vanilla centers.

He said "Do you mean Neopolitan? Napoleons are filled with brandy."

I give boxes of those to neighbors at Christmas. I don’t think there are any active members in my neighborhood…and I live in Salt Lake.

Best reason ever.

It doesn't matter went you lost it...

Just that you never find it again!

Why, not went