Alright most of you have seen a few of my posts rambling on about my 3 TBM older brothers and their illogical nature, however this posting is a great sounding board to voice my frustration with these total nit-wits.

So I am rebuilding my mother's fence with my second oldest TBM brother and he flew in from AZ to CO to help. From the minute I picked him up at the airport he is super opinionated about everything controversial such as the Woke movement, LGBTQ, Trump, etc... The whole time I just tried to keep my mouth quiet and focus on the job at hand. At one point during our work, he mentioned something about how his wife is sealed to someone else so after this life she will still be with that guy and he will have to move on. I asked him, "Doesn't that bother you?" He says, "Oh no, because I can't wait to the see the hot chic I will be lined up with in the eternities". WTF??? This statement is so stupid on so many levels its a crime.

At dinner, we again got somehow on the topic of the church (due to him being so opinionated, NOT ME) that I couldn't shut my mouth any longer cuz he sounded so ignorant. I asked my brother that if he was on trial for murder #1 to get the chair, what type of jury member would he prefer, 1. Only looks at facts that are appealing and sweet or 2. Looks at all facts carefully and weighs them objectively as possible? Naturally, he chose #2 with a smart as caveat.

At any rate, I asked him if he read the SEC filing against the church and what he made of it. He said no, he doesn't need to cuz the church was bullied into signing that plea bargain. I told him that the Church from the top 3 signed their asses on the dotted line that they in fact are guilty and did break the law knowingly. He challenged me, but he won't read the SEC filing or watch the RFM and/or Mormon Stories podcasts that break down the entire document.

My brother then diverted to comparing what a shitty life I have and how would he follow that as if my life somehow changes the truth of the facts regardless? He then accused me of somehow getting some satisfaction to provide this information as if I am not compassionate and caring enough to protect my family from predators. I retorted to him, all I know is that I am telling you someone is breaking in your car and stealing your property and you are acting as if I am a bad dude. Then he called out the "No Talk of This Subject" trump card cuz he can't win.

It's unbelievable that jokers like this have the right to vote. It's unbelievable that he has the right to send his kids and the kids of others out on missions to preach this LIE and I must sit and shut up? This fucken one way street has got to end!!!!!

Yikes. Some people are just too painful to talk to. Just go home thankful you're not him.

I avoid my siblings like the plague. It's not worth being reminded who they are.

I agree and appreciate dagny, but it is just not that simple in my case. The religious ignorance is so thick in the air you can cut it with a butter knife.

It is a new level of crazy somewhere between illogical and totally bonkers.

I escaped from Utah due to my toxic extended family.

Smartphone.

Playlist.

Earbuds.

Let him shout into the void.

Whatever you do, don't kill him. Then he would get 72 virgins.

LOL, my wife said the same line that he sounds like the Taliban and their virgins. LOL.

You know what else is so messed up. He inferred to me that I am a non-god believing person who has a totally fucked up life. I said to him that I am agnostic and by virtue of the light of christ, it is my duty to find truth regardless.

That comment really hurt me badly, I shaking right now so angry at him. My mom and dad taught me to follow my 3 older brothers and I did. Mission, BYU, Marriage in SLC temple the whole 9 yards. Then I find out innocently by stumbling upon facts that showed the truth is false and I drink alcohol too much. Now I have the most fucked up life, WHEN HE IS DIVORCED FROM A TEMPLE MARRIAGE AND NO MARREID TO SOMEONE HE CAN"T BE SEALED TO CUZ SHE IS ALREADY SEALED, I am fucked?

Listen up guys, it is not mental gymnastics to stay within the morg. It's total out right Lafferty under the banner of heaven total insane, crazy, BS. I am angry!

onthedownlow Wrote:
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> I am angry!

Reasonably, rightfully, so.

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.

Don't even try to set your family straight as they look down in you in pity, you being in the thrall of Lucifer and all.

You should be laughing. It is a Richard Pryor level of absurdity. Joseph made it all up while cashing in and boffing as many wives and daughters of his followers as he pleased.

Praise to the Man who communed with Jehovah. Why, he said so himself. What's not to believe?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2023 01:32AM by bradley.

I'd disengage and refuse to take the bait. It sounds like every time he gets you to take the bait, he feels like he's gained another rung on the moral high ground ladder. Of course he hasn't, and he's wrong. So starve him of what he wants. Look up the grey rock method (for dealing with narcissists).

Let it all motivate you to live the best life you possibly can, and forget about them.

It sounds like your brother could best help by leaving to get a fence-post stretcher, fallopian tubes, sundial batteries, and a ranch hand punch. You might get some quiet and the right to call him an idiot if he tries to find everything on the list.

onthedownlow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At one point during our work, he
> mentioned something about how his wife is sealed
> to someone else so after this life she will still
> be with that guy and he will have to move on. I
> asked him, "Doesn't that bother you?" He says,
> "Oh no, because I can't wait to the see the hot
> chic I will be lined up with in the eternities".


I thought that it's supposed to the unmarried spinster "sweet sisters" that get assigned to a god-husband in the faux Mormon afterlife...

" He said no, he doesn't need to cuz the church was bullied into signing that plea bargain."

Actually, I remember this, Luca Brasi told the head of the church, either his brains or his signature would be on the plea bargain.

Living well is the best revenge.

OMG, round 2, ding ding! Now my brother says that none-of-the-truth matters b/c one's falsehood is another's truth. As if that explains anything.

He goes on to brag that he and my other two older brothers have each paid at least 2 million in tithing since they were young until now. He boasts. I said to him, "the day this church became clear in my mind, I ran up stairs and grabbed the monthly tithing check and tore it up, never looked back"

I also went on to add to him, "it's ok bro, one day you will be standing in Jackson County, MO wearing nothing but your garmmies, pennyless, and holding a cup of cool-aid in hand with a note written on it, (drink me immediately this is a commandment), call me if you need a ride then bro".

A variation of "go woke, go broke".


Right wing rubbish from their prosperity gospel.

BA-Ding! Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding! Dave the Atheist you have won a new car, now do you wanna wager that car on door #1 or door #2?

Hell yeah, fucking hillbillies they are. All he has done is bitch about the little mermaid cast of blacks over whites and how woke it is. Then there is my oldest brother who has boycotts on everything from Coca Cola, Disney, to NBA and his most favorite the Kneelers of the NFL. Total freak'in David Duke lov'in fools. There favorite joke is to move the cast of Zulu dawn to Mulan or Zulu to Pocahontas. And then there is the Snow White stuff.

I tried to divert with a little Bill Burr cuz he uses the F-bomb too much and told him about his rendition of Duck Dynasty, Oh hell he defended Duck Dynasty for his bigotry comments without even knowing the content of it. "he is probably rich as hell and doesn't give a shit".

John Dehlin needs to make case studies of these Lafferty fools! Total dick bags.

Mormons must be so conflicted not being able to boycott Bud Light.

"He goes on to brag that he and my other two older brothers have each paid at least 2 million in tithing since they were young until now."

The word that bothers me in that sentence is "brag" - about giving money to what is, to outsiders and Exmos at least, a transparent scam.

It's very sad - but your comeback was perfect! :-D



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2023 03:08AM by Soft Machine.

Did you ask them if they had paid enough in to get their 2nd Anointing? how bout the 3rd?

I recommend that you keep following your first instinct to simply not engage. Save yourself the aggravation. LOL You can't win with those types.

+1

+2

+6.02x10^23

+6.02x10^23

+1

Dammit ! *LOL*

Well, another man's lie is another man's truth makes no sense. And he went on to add that their are ppl who spend millions to be part of a country club experience so what difference does it make. I kept bringing up the Light of Christ concept but he kept ignoring me. I told him, there has to be a truth somewhere is it not your obligation to find it?

Fucken selfish moron. He just wants to remember his white childhood full of disney bliss. He should have been born black in the deep south in the 1800's. Or better yet, Jew to the hilt in S.S. Nazi Germany. I even gave him the blood atonement spill. He is a dumb ass.

Inflation is ruining everything nowadays. . .

sometimes TBMs will allow a slight point to keep a conversation going, either sincere or just as a hook to reel the person engaged, but I'll wait to see Pigs Fly before I believe it...

Look folks I am really super angry, and I rely heavily on the wisdom of all of you who are so super brilliant to enlighten me with a thought of grain of substance to further move forward with this moronic bullshit.

I cannot understand the insanity of this how the fuck has truth taken a backseat to someone's comfort? How come the church sends 50K missies to the world to spread the word that we all know is so tainted yet they also can bear testimony and dominate the dinner tables with their prayers this is so lopsided and unfair I am about to shit a gorilla!!!

I have nerds checking the interwebs to see if it’s an originalism, because if Google can’t find it, it doesn’t exist.

So, I am so very sorry things are jacked up, truly.

But man, you’ve won some SAG fans!

Don’t pop a vessel.

onthedownlow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look folks I am really super angry, and I rely
> heavily on the wisdom of all of you who are so
> super brilliant to enlighten me with a thought of
> grain of substance to further move forward with
> this moronic bullshit.


I'm sticking with my original advice. As soon as you did not follow your first instinct, which was not to engage in the subject with him, things went sideways.

There's no point. It becomes an exercise in frustration. Change the subject. Tell him that you're going to have to agree to disagree and avoid the subject if he's too dense to get the hint and shut up.

Because I was in the Church for 30 years, every single one of my friends are TBMs. We talk about anything but the Church. We know that we won't see eye-to-eye and that it won't go well, so we just avoid the subject.

If you have someone who won't shut up about it, then you have to talk with them as little as possible and stick with, "So, how's the weather?" sort of conversation.

It's annoying, but not engaging with them is the only way to have peace. You can't win with them. They're locked into a mindset that sets them up to win every time, in their minds anyway.

The Church is what it is. They don't change unless they're being hit in the wallet.

Greyfort, I totally understand your point and I do agree with it, but it's a tough pill to swallow. This is the brother who at the time I was deciding to go on a mission told me, "Just put your papers in a go and along the way you will get a testimony". Also, my third oldest brother made fun of me heckling me with the second oldest b/c I had my concerns about the church.

Basically, I got bullied by my family to serve and waste my time and mind for 39 years of my life. The audacity of these freaks to think that they have the right of way at all times to spread their phony BS religion yet I can't clarify an error in their doctrine? This is what chaps my ass.

The funny thing is though, this brother that I am talking about he knows very well a lot of what I know and knows when to avoid further knowledge. He knows to examine the facsimiles in the POGP and to read the SEC's report on the church. He chooses not to and to make up defensible positions such as "the church teaches wonderful things or Your life is screwed up (props to Dave the Atheist on this one) or You told me you don't believe in god why would I live like that etc..."

The hypocrisy is so unreal. He thinks you can't be a good person without being mormon. He pays the suspected country club for his own fellowship but doesn't care to keep it to himself, he forces it on other unsuspecting folks and that is where he spreads his toxicity to the innocent. He's a cancer.

The church is a psychologically manipulative cult designed to produce worker bees that bring home the honey.

Their culture disarms your defenses against being taken advantage of by insisting on fealty to the church. You give up your moral autonomy and become like Peter Pan. You never grow up. Doesn't that sum up your typical Mormon?

The problem is that the church is not wrong on everything. Some of its teachings, the practices that have been around since before the putative Jesus, are actually valuable. There is real cheese in the mousetrap. That doesn't mean you should give up on cheese.

Look at the bright side. He is helping you----my TBM brothers are too very specially anointed to help build a fence, They can bill $500.00 an hour!! God does not expect them to do menial labor like building a fence. Sheesh!

Those “specially anounted” turn out to be the most boring, empty people you could possibly meet.

It’s the curse for selling their souls.

Thanks for posting onthedownlow. Over the years I have talked to folks who view Mormonism as a quaint and rather benign religion which has teenage missionaries running around on bikes. They are unaware of the damage the corporation does to families such as yours. The absurd beliefs destroy some of the cognitive skills normal adults should possess. They lose the capability of thinking clearly and being open to facts and logic regarding religion and now even politics. DW and I struggle with the hard core Evangelicals at times here in the South, but it is no where near as stressful as what you experience. Hang in there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2023 09:02AM by Eric K.

I'll give you all the conclusion to the visit to Denver from my 2nd oldest TBM brother. We tried hard to avoid religion today. We helped my mom rebuild her fence and put on a new latch and fixed her car battery. At least we did something charitable to our mother together which I can say was nice.

I had to grit my teeth a lot cuz the the ignorance flows deep and rich. Elon Musk, DeSantis, Trump and others were brought up a lot. My Brother thinks there is an endless supply of resources in the world. Burn baby burn, burn the fucker down. He spent the last hour at home with my mom at the kitchen table bragging about his trip to Isreal and showing her all the sacred places where Jesus walked and did baptisms and cured the blind man etc... I am sure P.T. Barnum was smiling down on him, a sucker born every minute. I just watched band of brothers on amc. We drove out to the airport and he was holding his tongue at that point. I am sure he has a lot to unload on his wife when he gets home.

I will tell you this. I cornered this bigoted moron good when I gave him the comparison of the 12 man jury you would want to represent you if you are on murder one. Do you want the dude that looks for appealing facts and nothing too controversial or threatening or the other type who weighs all facts and is objective as possible, assuming that you are innocent and there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that is incriminating.

The bottomline, the dude sees it as a country club where he hangs out and has his good times and it feels so nice regardless of all the mounting BS built in the doctrine and around the media. He clearly only cares about his comfort and he don't care about who he offends or encroaches upon. Bravo Borther, your a real awesome human although you make the rest of us who care for truth alone out to be devils. Fucken piece of shit!

Living well is its own reward.

This guy is all smoke and mirrors.

That sort of personality simply doesn’t wear well. It will come back to bite him.

Man. When I went to church I used to feel sad that I was the only member in my family. Now I think I was so lucky that I was. My family was supportive when I was baptized, and even came to my baptism. They were even more supportive when I left the Church.

I tried the "fake it 'till you make it" method for 30 years before I finally figured out that it was never going to work.

There is some weird stuff going on. Recently in Eastern Idaho I was talking to someone, and out of nowhere he asked me if I was ready for polygamy. Proceeding with reality I assured him it was not happening. Oh yes it is. I then used the: I doubt any sister, if I were active, would find me desirable. Plus, polygamy is not coming back. Oh yes it is. I am not interested, never have been. Gays can marry! That does not apply to me either. Well, I know but if people can same sex marriage, why can't a man have more than one wife? I do not know, but ask the Supreme Court. Well it's coming back!

Bizzare.

Maybe, things like that are why I have always felt uncomfortable with the church of my upbringing, and into early old age. I do not have a stake in LGBQ, nor in BLM, nor in Woke. But when the guy starts using racial slurs regarding our former President, or how the hippies are ruining the town etc. Someone else cuts my hair.

Bizzare.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2023 04:46PM by tensolator.

Yeah, there was one other point my brother argued with me he said, "so the church broke the law, was it worse than Al Capone?"

I paused for a second b/c I thought it was so stupid either direction to answer yes or no. A law was broken by a group that claims that it obeys the laws of the land and it teaches CTR. I didn't think he would be patient enough to listen to me say this point, so I decided to simply say "yes" b/c Mtn Meadows happened and many other atrocities to justify this response.

OK OK OK I get it, he wants to be apart of the boyz club and he enjoys it. He has an understanding that the church is messed up, but chooses to ignore it b/c he wants to stay in and enjoy like he did as a younger person.

However, this is what gets me all worked up and pissed off. He spits out his opinions against the LGBTQ, Liberals, Global Climate control, Resources being abundant, WOKE, BLM, and he supports sending ppl in the field to teach this one-sided message that JS was a great guy and had no strange sexual urges etc.. Moreover, I was one of his victims that fell for this crap and I am damn pist off. I want all my time back. The world is loaded with wack-o's like this and they wonder why ppl fly planes through buildings, genocide other groups, or shoot up schools and public places. This is all insane behavior. I am so tired of having to tippy toe around the theists and their bigotry.

onthedownlow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, there was one other point my brother argued
> with me he said, "so the church broke the law, was
> it worse than Al Capone?"


What? LOL I'd have said, "Are you serious?"

Lucifer controls the waters, so church leaders would never dare an escape from Alcatraz.

They might like the tour, though.

Mormons are in a cult. Anything that goes against their narrative is persecution.

So the government is persecuting "the" church by investigating fraud.

When you talk to members of a cult, you only need to talk to one of them. They'll tell you the same thing any other member of the NPC cult will say.

Oh yeah T-Bone, my oldest brother told me when the story originally broke out on the Ensign Peak "Fake News", took a page right out of his favorite leader, Trump. I replied, "Really, so CNN, Fox, CBS, BBC, NBC, Deseret, SLC Tribune, WWW, etc... plus the SEC are all in cahoots to bully the LDS church?"

My brother who was just here with me said that he had read the Deseret response by the church and believed them when they claimed that they were being persecuted. I responded, "So you mean to tell me the U.S. Government and the Securities and Exchange Commission, who protects your retirement portfolio from predators, are bullying the church and all they could get was 5 million? I would believe this position a little if the government took them for 5 Billion". He also tried to say that it was not by the anointed brethren. I retorted, "The BIG THREE signed their asses to this in writing on the dotted line that hey in fact ordered it". He didn't believe me, but I said read the SEC report for yourself. Of course he won't do it b/c he may lose his testimony.

It just blows me away. The level of selfishness to perpetuate a lie for one's own self comfort of a belief system. You not only hurt yourself, but you hurt everyone around for many generations. That is lower than a snakes ass. Tisk Tisk big brothers.

I feel how upset you are and how much it hurts to know the people you love and trusted were used as tools and agents to take advantage of you for so long.

I think it might help you to read up on cults and brainwashing, in particular anything that has to do with family members trying to cope with someone they love who is in a cult. Not only will you likely find examples of what happened to you, that it wasn't your fault, but you'll also learn what is going on inside the heads of your loved ones and family.

It was so frustrating to me in the beginning to realize how stubborn their beliefs can be, I also carried around a lot of hidden anger and shame for allowing myself to be stupid enough and vulnerable enough to be tricked for so long. Those sound like some things you'll need to process in your journey because it will not be healthy for your relationship with your brother, who is not a moron(and THAT is what kills you the most, isn't it? He holds ridiculous opinions but you KNOW he is a competent man, successful, and able to process information; he could get himself out if he really wanted to) for you to continue to beat your head against the brick wall. You have to abandon the thought that any of his beliefs are based on facts; there aren't going to be enough evidence you could show him that will defeat his emotional feedback. You have to let go of this delusion that he knowingly manipulated and hurt you and wasted your life and remember that he's wasted his too. Someone else was pressuring HIM to go on a mission and someone else was twisting his innocent emotions to give over his obedience and loyalty. What he has done and what has been done to him, in his mind were good things, done for the side of light.

It will be incredibly horrifying and painful for him to realize and accept the manipulation and pain he has been a part of. Just as I'm sure you carry some pain knowing that you spread this wicked message to others as a missionary; you likely taught a few classes in church as well? Did you ever bear your testimony ever? You know how painful it is to confront how you were made an agent of the cult, how you spread its toxic scam. If you ever shared any faith promoting thing to people, you were a part of spreading the lie, validating for them the things they were feeling. Real people who were affected by what you said. Who had THEIR testimonies in JS's weirdo sex cult strengthened by your input.

Maybe be gentle to your brother? What if all your badgering and arguing finally did get him to open his eyes and see the life of hate he's leading? Do you enjoy breaking somebody just to be right? Just to win? Or would you hope he'd survive that and think fondly of you and be penitent? Do you want to be the guy he calls at 2 a.m. while he's ugly sobbing, reading the CES letter, asking you for guidance on how he moves on from this?

I dunno. Not trying to moralize to you or anything but it really bothers me how angry you are and yet repeatedly in every post, you call him "brother", "my brother". I know what brother means to me. Part of leaving the cult is redefining and solidifying our own definitions of family and love, because they try so hard to turn the family unit into an office work situation with father as the boss and your siblings are nothing more than coworkers in the eternities.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2023 08:56AM by blackcoatsdaughter.