As I wrote on another thread, my prediction is that the other suits will never let Monson speak publicly again - at least not in General Conference.

But...this will make no difference: Whether Monson speaks for twenty minutes, two hours, stands there mute, or we just stare at empty space behind a microphone for a week, the *content* will remain the same: zero.

Thomas Monson, that I can gather, has never had one single interesting thought in his entire life. He has never told one single yarn that did not strike me as completely vapid (and that includes my opinion when I was a believing member). He has never elucidated any doctrine, or any confounding passage of scripture; never issued any prophecies that I know of, or taken any controversial stands; he is a blank. He has always been a blank. His legacy is...blank. That I know of, he has contributed not one single substantive thought to the world in over half a century as an LDS General Authority.

In any other organization, religious or secular, Monson's complete validity would have been seen as a negative. But in the bizarro world of New Mormonism (which I think was largely engineered by the agnostic Gordon B. Hinckley), Monson's vapidity was a big plus: by issuing sermon after sermon entirely devoid of *content*, rank-and-file Mormons could remain in their stupefied, somnambulent states, in which vague projection plays a key role, and never be jogged out of it by, say, a coherent, incisive view of something.

(By the way, this is why Packer was never tapped for a First Presidency counselor gig: his sermons contained actual content. If he could have without upsetting "the faithful", Hinckley would have dumped Packer within ten seconds of getting control of the Mormon church, for just that reason. Instead, the Hinckley coalition simply adopted a policy of trying [in Oak's memorable phrase, according to Steve Benson] to "stage-manage the grizzly bear" - by which they meant, "trying to cope with the embarrassing fact that Packer actually expresses *content*".)

In any case, the point is, Monson will likely never speak publicly again - but then, it will not make any difference at all, because he never said anything, anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2015 05:43PM by Tal Bachman.

I agree that Monson was a placeholder prophet. Tabula rasa.

I actually think New Testament lite is the best part of mormonism and found Monson's talk on Sunday quite enjoyable and even inspiring. Go figure. But I've always like old people telling the same stories over and over and miss them when they die.

I forget where I read it, but the thought expressed was that Tommy Monson had never given a conference talk in which he'd borne testimony of the BofM.

Has anyone heard of this, or done any research on this issue?

I did a brief check of Monson's General Conference speeches from 2008 to 2015 and checked for book of Mormon referrences. He quotes from or mentions the Book of Mormon in 15 separate speeches.

Of those 15 times, he never states that he is bearing his testimony, testifying of or declaring that the Book of Mormon as a whole is true. So technically what you have heard might be true.

However, in three of those speeches, he infers or states directly that the verses he quotes are true and the process of praying about the Book of Mormon being true is a valid action.

2011, April, Priesthood Session, "Priesthood Power"
"If you have not read the Book of Mormon, read it. I will not ask for a show of hands. If you do so prayerfully and with a sincere desire to know the truth, the Holy Ghost will manifest its truth to you.
If it is true - and it is - then Joseph Smith was a prophet who saw God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ. The Church is true.

2011, October, Priesthood Session, "Dare to Stand Alone"
". . . you can know for yourself that the gospel of Jesus Christ is true."
"Read the Book of Mormon. Ponder its teachings. Ask Heavenly Father if it is true."
". . . when we know the book of Mormon is true, then it follows that Joseph Smith was indeed a prophet and that he saw God the Eternal Father and His Son, Jesus Christ."

2013, April, Priesthood Session, "Come, All Ye Sons of God"
"Declare your witness concerning the Book of Mormon."

What I find interesting is that his strongest statements were made in priesthood session, which indicates to me that he is more comfortable away from a mixed audience.

I think that some people might wish to make a case that he doesn't actually believe and is simply going along for the ride, the lifestyle, power, prestiege and adoration. That could be very true, but it is hard to make a case for any particular individual. Personally, I find it difficult to believe that a person who makes it into Quorum of the Twelve and the First Presidency are unaware of the massive number of historical problems, the moral violations of the Prophets beginning with Joseph Smith or the extreme doctrinal contradictions. Of course, none of them are theologians, but if I see the problems then they can't be ignorant. They are the top echelon in the scam and are charged with keeping it going. They are all culpable.

There is virtually nothing true within the Mormon system. Joseph Smith never had a "First Vision,"
he never saw or spoke to God or Jesus Christ and they never spoke to him, there were never any gold plates from which he translated to Book of Mormon and he never had a revelation. The same applies to every prophet since then because they have never received a single revelation.

the LDS don't apply or follow the BoM, particularly on Forgiving or on Divorce (only for fornication/adultery, 3rd Nephi 12).

The BoM has been demoted from (what might have been) God's True Word (tm) on the issues mentioned to a door-stop in the church presentation to believers, doubters, & investigators.

Your last paragraph sums up everything one needs to know about the Mormon church. And since JS ran out of chances, the old white guys that run the church have been trying to wrap glittery wrapping paper around a turd while coming up with increasingly imaginative ways to turn a profit from their followers gullibility.

Now Rasband I thought was the one who said nothing.

But ... but ... but what about the widows ?

And eating shortbread with a glass of milk?

Wow. That was an accurate analysis. Cheers.

Hah well said.

His talks remind me of the content-free song in 1984:

"'It was only an 'opeless fancy,/It passed like an Ipril dye,/But a look an' a word an' the dreams they stirred,/They 'ave stolen my 'eart awye!'" (Orwell 138).

Orwell says it was composed "without any human intervention whatever on an instrument known as a versificator."

But you have to admit, there isn't much to Joel Osteen either.

Far be it from me to defend a predatory MORmON PRofit, and they are ALL predators to one extent or another. SO take this as a contrast and comparison kind of thing. Monson did not make doctrinal declarations. Hinckley did, as he disavowed and dismantled MORmON doctUrine. Monson did try to advocate service to others to a certain extent. Hinckley's emphasis was overwhelmingly to make sure that every one knew how damn great that he (thought he) was. Watch their official LDS Inc Video biographies. There is a difference.

Perhaps Hinckley should have been blocked from speaking in public after this, but then again the damage had already been done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wALvdgurB4

Hinckley neutralized the church so effectively that I've got to wonder if he was some sort of secret agent. And the other top managers let him do whatever he wanted because they were wrongly convinced that he knew how to talk to the outside world.

Monson visited my mission and took a story he heard at zone conference and turned it into a "Faith Promoting Story", when he got done with the embellishment, none of the major points were true. He gave this story at a conference talk and published it in one of his books. The missionary who related the story originally tried to get Monson to stop telling the story, and he never heard any reply from Monson.

We had a similar incident with GA Theodore Burton, who did not climb as high as Monson.

I pretty much knew they were all full of s__t by the halfway point of my mission.

He tortured untold numbers of gays and lesbians in the bowels of BYU. He is personally responsible for several suicides.

Oh yes, this Hitler henchman has a legacy indeed...one of death.

"Monson's complete validity" is an invalid phrase.

OOPS, I meant to type "complete vapidity". I just tried to correct it but this thread won't let me edit now for some reason.