There have been a few stories in the news (and a few posts here on RfM) about Mark Juergensmeyer’s boycott of the Law and Religion Symposium at BYU because of BYU’s policy of expelling any Mormon student who leaves the faith or converts to another religion.

http://janariess.religionnews.com/2015/10/06/religion-scholar-mark-juergensmeyer-boycotts-byu-conference-to-protest-university-policy-cites-religious-freedom/

John Dehlin interviewed Dr. Juergensmeyer, and posted his interview on Mormon Stories. I thought Dr. Juergensmeyer articulated so well why this policy violates religious liberty. A few excerpts from his interview:

“The issue of expelling students because they switch is not a matter of questioning their dogma. It’s really a matter of freedom of belief. And to me, that’s really quite shocking that a student would be expelled from an academic institution. They could be expelled from a church. I can understand that. I have no quarrels with that. Churches should be able to expel people for whatever reasons they want to expel people. That’s their business. But not from a university. Because a university is different. A university is a social institution in our society that’s dedicated to free inquiry and clear critical thinking, and it should let the chips fall where they may. And so I feel very strongly about that."

“I’m sure that if, in some other country—if it was a Muslim country, for example, in a university in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, and a Muslim student converted to the Mormon faith, and then was kicked out of the university, I’m sure that administrators at BYU would be disturbed and would regard this as an affront to religious freedom, and they’d be right. But how could they be so blind not to see that their own policy—they’re doing exactly the same thing."

Dehlin then asked him: “My guess is, what the Church doesn’t want is students doubting and questioning at the university because then it spreads to other students, and all of a sudden you have an outbreak; you have an epidemic. Can you empathize with the Church’s concern that these doubts and questions are undermining Christian religions all throughout the western world, that they don’t want that wildfire of doubt and disbelief spreading at their own religious university?”

Juergensmeyer: “That doesn’t say much about their conviction of the truth of their own belief. If they put it into the marketplace of free expression then suddenly people will be challenged and want to change, that would be disturbing if that were the case. You may very well be right, but that’s the risk you take when you have a university. If you don’t want people to go to a university, if you want to contain them within some sort of religious school that is not accredited, that’s not a part of the academic community that’s devoted to the free inquiry and free expression of beliefs, well, that’s your business. You could have that kind of insular society. But if you’re going to create a university, then you’re going to open yourself up for free inquiry and the consequences of that inquiry. There’s just no way around it.”

Whoa, caution

Can't say "muslim country"

please revise...

“That doesn’t say much about their conviction of the truth of their own belief."

Exactly.

Brigham Young University responded with the following statement after a request for comment about Dr. Juergensmeyer's letter:

"Higher Education in the United States is made up of a diverse collection of colleges and universities with distinct and unique missions. Institutional diversity is highly valued in American higher education and is protected by federal law. BYU is very open and clear about its mission as a religious institution.

“Prior to entering BYU, all students agree to uphold the BYU Honor Code. BYU's website pertaining to the honor code explicitly states the principles students are expected to follow. For members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints this includes following the values and standards of their religion. Because of covenants and commitments members of the LDS Church have made, they can no longer remain in good honor code standing if they chose to formally disaffiliate from the LDS Church.

“All students must be in good honor code standing to graduate, to receive a diploma and to have the degree posted. All of this is explained on BYU's website and in the application for admission to the university."

Translation:

“We know we’re bigots. Our bigotry is protected by federal law. We don’t hide our bigotry; we put it in our honor code, and require all incoming students to sign up to follow that code of bigotry. If they no longer want to remain bigots, we kick them out of our Bigot Club. All of this is explained on our website.”

BYU, of course, missed the boat in their official statement.
And the point is that they hold non-members at BYU to a different "standard" with regard to the "honor code" than they hold members to. A non-member simply has to abide by the code's behavior rules. A member has to not only abide by the behavior rules, they have to believe a certain way. And even if they don't violate any of the code's behavior rules, just by changing their religious beliefs, they can be expelled.

It's hypocrisy and they know it. They just want to continue to use their fear tactic of, "Better not lose your testimony, or you'll be kicked out!" to keep the kids in line.

The application for admission did say that I was expected to follow the Honor Code. It absolutely did NOT explain that if I decided to change my religion, that would be considered a violation of the Honor Code.

Most students who are admitted to BYU are not yet endowed. The only covenants and committments they have made are through baptism. If I remember correctly, the covenant of baptism is to "take upon you the name of Christ, and always remember Him, and keep his commandments which He has given them." No one ever explained the fine print - that this includes giving up your right to ever change your religious affiliation.

One more reason no one should allow their 8-year-old children to be baptized.

Great point. Most 17 and 18 year olds applying to BYU have no intention of ever leaving the Mormon Church. It doesn't even cross their minds.

If accepted, young Mormon's are on CLOUD NINE, and they will sign any honor code to start their freshman year.

Exactly, we all know that the HONORABLE thing to do when you no longer believe in the LDS church is just to APPEAR to believe it.

It really is amazing what chains you put yourself in at 8 years old when all you wanted to do was have your day in the sun and your attention and your party like all your friends had.

Last Sunday we had a recognition of new members at our (UU) church. We do this several times a year. One of the new "members" was a girl who grew up in our church. She had turned 18 and was going to college locally so she could finally become a member. We were all excited about that step in her life.

But then I thought about how many kids came through our program and were there when they were 8 or 10, but had left before they reached adulthood. Many don't have time for it in high school, or their families find something else that fits better or whatever. But luckily they're not tied to the UU church. They don't get harassed because they were never members. They were never old enough to make that important decision for their lives, i.e., being an ADULT who has studied, ponderized it and made an adult decision.

So these BYU mormon kids reach adult age, study, ponder and realize it's not for them and not their belief. Then the only choice they have is to lose hard-earned credits and cheaper tuition that they are probably owed because of all the money their parents put into the institution that sponsors it, or stay underground and lie for another year or two or three.

Doesn't the sponsor of BYU have any moral obligation to follow an honor code? Why can they suck little kids in and lie to them for 10 years and then punish them when they become and adult and find out? Is that honor? If they think it is, it's pretty sick.

If your "beliefs" can't stand up to a little questioning, criticism, and the fact that others reject them, they don't have any value to begin with.

It's in the Washington Post now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/religion-scholar-boycotts-byu-conference-to-protest-university-policy/2015/10/07/0518fe84-6d2e-11e5-91eb-27ad15c2b723_story.html

This hopefully will help the story and the issue get traction.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. BYU is not a university.

Congratulate and thank the man - juergens@global.ucsb.edu

I'm baffled how he would think a religious school would have anything else but religious control. It's how it works on all or most religious schools. If more intellectual freedom is wanted, stick to state schools. That ought to help.

Really?

What other university that you would compare to BYU requires it's students (of the sponsoring school's faith) to attend weekly church services or prevent them from changing their faith?

http://www.christianuniversitiesonline.org/best-christian-colleges/

But the principal is the same. These are insular academic institutions that let academic consumers pick the context at which their education is filtered through.

These places would argue that all universities do the same thing, they are just more up front about their educational filters.

Regardless, BYU is a fascist place with fascist rules trying to turn students into self-policing Mormons who would also turn in their fellow students for "morality infractions."

It's perfect for Mormonism because the leadership gets to pretend that "there's a difference between doctrine and culture," and members regurgitate this lie.

It's the difference between that "Joseph Smith said, 'teach them correct principals and let them govern themselves,'" and the reality that your roommate will turn you in for pornography addiction to the bishop and believe that he was doing the right thing by saving your spiritual life.

The real issue? BYU should lose their accreditation. My friend got her degree from a Catholic university. She was Lutheran. I believe she had to take religion classes, but was not required to attend church.

I'd actually be very surprised if any of the schools on that list have a policy of kicking you out and denying you a degree if you simply change beliefs.

BYU does both.

But I haven't seen anything as draconian as BYU.

I think at some of them, the social stigma of leaving Christianity may drive one away from campus. But I haven't found anything in writing yet.

There are some threads on voldemort's site. You know the one. Hint hint. Wink wink. That discuss atheists being expelled from Christian Univeristies.

Then there's a lot of this:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/10/16/private-christian-schools-that-receive-taxpayer-dollars-are-legally-expelling-gay-students/

Openly gay and transgendered students are being expelled. And it's the breach of "honor code" that's being cited.

Notice that the issue remains that many of these schools receive some governmental funds; therefore, is their discrimination legal or just unethical.

However, I find it disturbing to use the bandwagon argument to dismiss the blatant discrimination these religious "schools" employ in the names of their disgusting gods.

Only 2 other comments on WP (when I posted) Here's mine.

The LDS church's own Articles of Faith state:

"11 We claim the privilege of worshiping
Almighty God according to the dictates of our own
conscience, and allow all men the same privilege,
let them worship how, where, or what they may."

Clearly mormons, especially those at BYU, don't believe their own 11th Article of Faith and don't practice it. Since there is a difference in tuition for members and non-members, simply charge the student the higher rate. Or BYU should lose their accreditation.

FYI: 89 % of tithes paid by Canadians LDS members go to BYU.
"The sum of the listed "Total amount of gifts" for the 484 "Qualified Donees" is $115,126,701. How much tithing and other "offerings" from Canadian Latter-day Saints did the LD$ Church funnel to BYU? According to the filed data, $102,900,000 (89.38%)."

Dr. Juergensmeyer posted an article on Religion Dispatches:

http://religiondispatches.org/why-i-boycotted-a-conference-at-brigham-young-university/

I am inclined to agree with both posters Naomi and SusieQ#1. With regard to the question of other religious schools engaging in this practice, I don't know but my top candidates would be Bob Jones University and Liberty University in Virginia and Oral Roberts University in Oklahoma.

That said, I am going to add a couple of flies to the ointment in response to SusieQ#1's comments. First, religious schools can include and exclude whoever they want with one proviso. If these schools accept federal moneys, then they must abide by federal limitations regarding how they treat protected classes (racial minorities, the disabled, and women). Second, there is a movement afoot among some who have money and therefore power and influence to remove the concept of public anything, including public colleges. While I won't go into further details here (board rules), I will say that the behavior and actions of these people could make public colleges and universities obsolete in the not-too-distant future.