that successfully conned my parents, I wonder what else in life is not as it seems, but really all controlling scams?

The government, the media, my bamboozled tbm family who have become increasingly difficult to deal with. Just to name a few.

What else is really smoke and mirrors and probably could be avoided?

Hi Deepcreek, for me nothing compares to the time, faith, money, energy, and TRUST I put into Mormonism. Yes, I'm weary of governmental bullshit, I'm distrustful of many media sources, and I sometimes wonder where society is headed. However, nothing compares to the systematic lying, cover ups, and character assignation done in protecting the interests of the Mormon church. Fuck the Morg! The Boner.

My friends in France with all their "socialism" have many more freedoms than Americans will ever --ever-- enjoy again.

"My friends in France with all their "socialism" have many more freedoms than Americans will ever --ever-- enjoy again."

Maybe, but that'll end when they run out of other people's money.

It's tough to beat the Morg. They told me what kind of underwear to wear, took over 10% gross of my income, took years away from me for a mission, years in meetings, almost every day of my life the church was involved in somehow, messed with my head, messed with family members' heads, chose my friends, etc., etc.

They even tell you what to wear in your casket.

A great and marvelous fraud.

L Tom Petty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> They even tell you what to wear in your casket.
>
> A great and marvelous fraud.

I Home Teach a 90 y/o lady. She is starting to show the signs of aging very quickly. My RSP wife was asking if she has Temple Clothes to be buried in. She said no, I'm getting cremated. My wife asked my opinion about it and I said, It's a family decision, not Church decision. "When she is gone, it won't matter to her, she won't even care about this world when she's gone." My wife became defensive and argued that the woman in question would have wanted it. I'm sure if she wanted it she would have given instructions to her kids, who are all inactive.

We soon got into a spat over what the family wants to do vs the oppressiveness of the Church to dictate how she will be dressed. She is getting Cremated for G*ds sake! I just wanted so much to show how idiotic this logic was.

But, I want to live happily ever after so I allowed the stupid sh*t to prevail.

And now the rage is to be buried with your temple recommend in your hand.

Cool idea. I want to have my precious resignation confirmation letter but in the box and cremated with me.

I asked my mother if she wanted to be buried with her temple clothes on and she replied, "Heavens, no!" She also does not want a Mormon funeral. She hates them. She wants a closed casket and said she'd be fine being buried in anything, including her p.j.s. I told her that p.j.s were a great idea 'cause she'd be comfy. : )

This is exactly why I have no qualms about calling people who truly believe the fraud, idiots. Cause I'll be the first one to admit I was the world's biggest idiot when I bought into it. However, I try not to judge non-believers who stay in for family and social reasons. Because I also know the difficulty of breaking free from the web of deceit that we got caught up in. We can see the deceit, but sometimes are just to caught in the web.

What other frauds are we falling victim to?

American patriotism is a sinister thing. We Americans tend to support the government no matter what. "My country right or wrong." Voters should think harder about which things that are done by America are moral and which need to be stopped.

I think you have a point about overdoing patriotism - not just in America. But from your post, it doesn't appear you support America, right or wrong. I gather you think a lot of other Americans, inferior to yourself, are like that. But that sure isn't my experience. I and the people I identify with love this country and think it is one of the best things that ever happened to the world. But we are not blind to the many mistakes that have been, and continue to be, made. And we don't support our country in doing things we perceive to be wrong.

+1..agreed. Instead of focusing on a bad politician or a bad law/policy, perhaps focus of patriotism should be more general, i.e. the principles and objectives surrounding the constitution, etc.

I grew up thinking we actually had a free market capitalist system in America. It turns out their is not really a level playing field, thanks to businesses like LDS Inc, businesses that buy congress members and write the laws themselves, etc.

To be honest; I could accept the "origins" of the corporation once certain truths, history and facts are found and incorporated into it's social and ecclesiastical foundations. So if it had stayed and progressed into a Christian Church, how could I have faulted any more than Seventh-day Adventist or Catholicism (Catholicism has just as much or worse of a history than the corporation). Yet, these institutions were able to move on; apologies were demanded, changes were made, and they came out only stronger.

Other corporations like Kellogg's, Coca Cola, Facebook, Apple, etc.. all have dark, bizarre, unsavory histories and backgrounds. Yet by producing facts, changing some tactics and adding in some apologies... They probably will continue.

So the biggest issue isn't just the "beginning frauds" but as was pointed out the "Long Running Frauds" and the New Frauds and lies that are being produced to cover up the past.

I promise you that the church I grew up in (1970's-80's) is not the same church or organization as it is today. So either things became better or worse or stayed the same. Well in some things (temple rites, accepting Blacks) the corporation made better changes. In the worse column is the removal of most social aspects and the addition of correlation; this made the corporation much, much worse. In the same column is the misogyny, the racism, the "Holier than thou" attitudes of the members, the Hero/Rockstar adoration of the leaders. It's the "same column" that is rotten, rotten and the corporation keeps trying to work around it. Like regular members can never contact or approach a G.A.; the highest contact they can make is their Stake President.

The power structure is too built into Utah and the Utah families. People in AZ, ID even the Colonias in Mexico have just as much or more LDS pioneer blood and history than most of those Norwegians in Northern Utah, but those blond/blue eyed people are the ones who take the positions and therefore their families are given other power positions.

The corporation has gotten rid of most of its employees (Janitors, CES/Seminary, office workers, etc...) and are "calling" members and setting them apart for these positions. It's an idiotic way to run a business or a church.

So even though it would be nice to just have the corporation announce it is closing; it's just going to whimper away from the rot within.

democracy is a very long term fraud/illusion: no matter who we vote for, the government always get in.

Well supposedly, WE ARE the government and we've chosen worthy people to represent us. Where oh where does this go wrong?
Well it starts right at the campaigning and election processes. What a farce!

don't forget the men & women in suits who keep their job no matter which political party wins elections.

In the UK we call them 'civil servants' and they do their best to make every elected government as impotent as possible and they collude with their counterparts in allied countries to achieve their collective goals.

We have an ILLUSION of democracy because the vote can be rigged in oh so many different ways, as you are probably well aware. It is similar to the 'sustaining vote' in the church being exposed as irrelevant by the 'any opposed' activists last general conference.

That's the first priority we need to face.

Assuming everything is fraudulent isn't a logical or helpful course.

Better to learn to trust our own senses and investigative abilities. Don't go out on every limb that blows in the wind.

Many thought they had it made if they followed the Mormon plan. No. That was a lie. Look for truth inside your own soul and intellect, not in glib sayings or in those who gain from doing what Mormons do, selling their own scam.

Fraud is more widespread now than it ever was. Every day I get phone calls and emails from criminals trying to get my credit card information, or trying to trick me into send them money.

I wonder if the authorities are actually trying to do something about it, or is it just futile to try to catch and prosecute these con artists. Seems like they're winning.

I feel your pain.

We get SO MANY robo-calls to our land line EVERY FREAKIN DAY! And just recently a few have made their way to my cell phone number, so now I'm thinking I'll get these calls whether I'm home or away.

I have friends who sent $1000 to an address in Las Vegas because a shyster phoned and claimed to be their grandson and said he was in Nevada for a funeral and lost his wallet.

Someone called me with a similar story and I was outraged. My grandsons are young kids and the caller couldn't tell me either of their names.

The phone fraud and identity theft is out of hand and no one is doing anything about it.

Banks write it off and send new cards and we all pay the price.

To the OP, I think the pain and betrayal you're feeling is the reason I didn't even try to look into another religion. I remember thinking: If Mormonism is a scam, then other religions are probably scams too.

More than anything, I remember feeling angry at my parents, grandparents, great grandparents and so on for not questioning the church earlier. Oddly enough, my parents are the kind who are paranoid and question everything else, just not the church.

Agree with fearguiltpromise.

imo...all religions are scams and all about control, obedience, and collecting money from gullible people who can't think for themselves.

church members need to stop using the internet to read anything. Just avoid it, and trust the morg leadership.

Don't worry, pay, pray, and obey.