Anyone have any advice for bringing up the ever dreadful "tithing" discussion with your spouse?

I've sat idly by while my wife pays tithing on the money I bring in including her own. I'm at the point I no longer want my money going down the drain like this. I just saw a debit of a good chunk of $ out of our bank account and it actually made me sick to my stomach.

I know it's probably going to cause an argument and whatnot. Just looking for any advice anyone has to make this as easy and as smooth as possible.

(Small note, my wife owns her own small business, if she wants to pay tithing on the money she brings in I don't care. It bothers me that is money that we could use to put towards our children and towards bills but I know it's just a losing battle to argue no more tithing to be paid.)

It is time to have separate accounts. Period. Whaterever you say, she will not like it. But think about this... It is your money. Let her pay whatever she wants to pay, as it is her money. Cut all family expenditures in half. Each of you take care of one half. Thithing to be out of the expenditures.
It is time to stand up by what you believe.
I have several years not paying tithing now and have used the money for my children in many ways. I am divorced and my ex pays her tithing all the time. She struggles to keep ahead. I am just glad that I am able to help my children beyond the child support.

Probably ought to be writing every thing down on a daily basis too. I suspect you may want to visit divorce lawyer before long. Sorry... TBM's can be difficult to live with or be around.

She's married to the church. Explain that you felt physically ill and why. She can still attend the temple if you refuse to flush money down the toilet, and they will still give her the honor of cleaning the toilets.

If she has a tantrum, it's time for therapy. Tithing isn't a negotiable compromise. She can go earn money and help them build another mall and luxury penthouse living, bullet proof prophet mobiles, "small stipends" for the brethren, huge legal and PR firms...

Good luck. I'm sorry you're between a magic rock and a hard place.

Explain to her, genuinely, that it is a matter of personal integrity to you, that it is serious and important to you. Maybe throw in the article of faith that says she should respect your conscience, which one is it, the 11th? And tell her she should pay all she wants on what she earns. I also second the recommendation for separate accounts. I was always taught that it was wrong for married people to have separate accounts, that they should "be one", even with finances. This may work for some, but I think most couples benefit from a bit of autonomy. My wife is terrible with money. One of the best things I ever did for our relationship and for my own sanity was to put the money needed to cover bills and savings in a separate account that she doesn't have direct access to. Otherwise the mortgage doesn't get paid. Your needs may be different, but separate accounts would give you peace of mind that money you earn doesn't get spent on something you're morally opposed to.

Do you guys owe any debt? The way I did it with my spouse was reason the D&C verse of tithing is paid on an increase. I showed him our debts and how after all is said and done we don't have much of an increase. We have been paying on debt all our lives and just getting by! I asked him to try it for a while so we can get ourselves out of debt then go back to paying. (*wink) Well after several months we are making a huge dent now in the debt and it feels right to both of us doing it! It feels good putting our family first. It also feels good to be able to breathe and not have to cross our fingers that stuff goes through at the end of the month. we went into our line of credit so many times while paying tithing!

I approached the subject with my TBM husband by reminding him of the ways that I was making compromises for him and his beliefs...allowing home teachers, paying fast offerings, etc.

I asked him if tithing could be an area where he would compromise with me. I told him that I would only ask for compromise when I strongly disagreed with a certain thing that the church asks for or does. He reluctantly agreed and now we pay tithing on half our income.

When you have a TBM spouse, I think it's important to choose your battles wisely. There are things that I'm living with that I'd rather not live with, but I try to choose carefully where I ask for compromise and learn to live with the stuff that isn't as important to me.

My solution was to tell DW that paying tithing on the money that she earned was her choice.

Paying the extortion on the money I earned was not her choice so stop doing it.

It worked out for me.

For you I don't know.

Think of it this way, one out of ever 10 days you drag you butt to work, your wife is giving you to the church. its not just money. From the time you got up to the time you get home, yor wife gave it all to another man. That's what made me sick .

For whatever it's worth - I handled it incrementally. DW and I went from being 10% Gross tithers for ChurchCo to giving to people and/or causes we feel are worthy. Rock Waterman wrote a pretty good article on the subject that you might check out for some ideas - How to Calculate your Tithing, or something like that. But we went from Gross to Net, then from Net to "Increase" or surplus like the LDS Scriptures actually say. That was by far the bigger drop in "Tithing Expenditure" to the church. Then from 10% of surplus after "NEEDS" to 10% of surplus after both needs and wants, and finally, to 0. We still think it worthwhile to cultivate a giving attitude, so we still give away about the same as we used to - we just don't track it religiously and account for it to a clergyman every year. Much better that way.

It's probably not the best idea for most, but I just put my foot down. I told her I didn't feel good about it and discussed how very little of that money does any real good. I still don't think she's happy about it, but she likes how much we're saving now. I told her she can still use that money to actually help people when needs arise. We've been able to help lots of neighbors, help family with medical bills, etc... It's nice to feel like you're actually doing some good and not worrying that any real charity is going to ruin you since tithing already took 110% of your disposable income.

It's time to have the tough discussion that you've been avoiding. I think it's a perfectly reasonable compromise for her to pay tithing only on her earnings. You could also handle bill-paying by yourself, or jointly, or (as others have suggested) also have separate checking accounts.

She will not be happy any way you put it to her at least at first. However you have to be categorical. Do not negotiate. Tell her firmly that for the sake of the whole family you will stop paying anything at all from your paycheck. You can't give in to tears or threats over it. Lay out alternate ways it can be invested (e.g.education funds) or improvements to your home or family vacations. Put the amounts you will save over say, five years on paper for her. Let her look at the list of things your family can have with the money you will be keeping. Ask her which of these things she would like to do. At least that will give her some input.

Also, isn't there something somewhere in mormonism that says that if a believing spouse pays tithing but not the nonbeliever she has met her obligation? I've read something along those lines on this board.

By the way if she pays tithing only on her income and not yours, she should still be able to claim herself a full tithe-payer when getting a temple recommend or whatever. Many member/nonmember or active/nonactive couples do it this way when one of the spouses does not want to pay tithing. Of course how easy this is to do might depend on how much each makes and who pays the bills.

This blog entry might actually help a lot. This blog post shows from the D and C and church history why the current levels of tithing the church is demanding or insinuating you must give are excessive. It is a post that you can have a TBM read because it speaks in their language and uses the church's own scriptures. I know several TBMs who found it compelling.

http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2012/12/are-we-paying-too-much-tithing.html

So that President Snow tithing movie was a big misrepresentation of what really happened? Huh. Who would have thought that the church would lie in order to get people to give them more money?

Does she know you don't believe?

That would significantly affect the discussion.

My husband (before I knew he was an unbeliever) talked me into not tithing on social security taxes, or retirement contributions. After all, we hadn't received that income, and we'd pay on that when we withdrew it (minus losses, or plus interest/growth. Many Mormons believe that SS will be bankrupt before they ever collect it. Which would make it even easier to talk her out of paying on it). He also suggested that we figure out how much of retirement/ss we had already tithed on in the past, and deduct that from the current year's income to correct the overpayment.

He also argued that we shouldn't pay tithing when we were in debt. But I wouldn't agree to that, and actually took out a loan to pay tithing. It hurts to remember that. But I think it was sweet that he cared enough about my feelings to go along with it.

I'd also suggest that you look into that puremormonism link.

If she knows you are an unbeliever, then you could still use those arguments to cut back on tithing. But I think the best compromise is for her to pay on her income, but only if your family can afford it (while saving for retirement and college).

Even when I was TBM (& my husband was inactive) I only paid on my own income.

I had a few bishops over the years tell me that I should also be paying on my spouse's income because it was money that benefited the whole family. I told each of them that if my spouse wanted to pay on his income, he would, but that I am only responsible for paying on my own income.

So, you see, it isn't outside the realm of possibility that the bishop might try to pressure her into continuing to pay on your income. Don't let them get away with it!