Ok, Eve meets Lucifer and she is rightfully skeptical. But then...he says a few lines and instead of holding on to her skepticism and dismissing this stranger, she folds and not only listens to the man, eats the fruit, then she obeys him further and puts on her apron! He's running her completely in just 2 minutes of dialogue!

Is this a subtle punch in the guts of LDS women? "Ladies...if you must think, think for a moment, but then back down to ANY MALE...be it Bishop, husband or 12 year old son. Surrender your will...and let's speed it up, ta".


EVE: Who are you?

LUCIFER:: I am your brother.

EVE: You, my brother, and come here to persuade me to disobey Father?

LUCIFER:: I have said nothing about Father. I want you to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, that your eyes may be opened, for that is the way Father gained his knowledge. You must eat of this fruit so as to comprehend that everything has its opposite: good and evil, virtue and vice, light and darkness, health and sickness, pleasure and pain; and thus your eyes will be opened and you will have knowledge.

EVE: Is there no other way?

LUCIFER:: There is no other way.

EVE: Then I will partake.

One moment of clarity that helped me leave the cult was initiated from this dialogue that you quoted. I was sitting next to my DD in the temple and after Adam says ,"the woman beguiled me and I did eat", she turned to me and said "They always blame it on the woman"..



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2015 11:42AM by antilehinephi.

Someone suggested that many women, like Eve, are still vulnerable to chat-up lines. (I've certainly never found this to be the case, which gives you some idea of what I look like)

That always bugged me too. Eve was deemed "Too innocent, too naïve" to be wandering out on her own making her own decisions.

It was later in the Endowment that Adam made his OWN decision and them BLAMED EVE for it!

I have heard that Adam made this choice so he could "save" Eve and not have her cast out alone.

The whole Endowment creeps me out, but the part of Eve being blamed and saved by MAN ticks me off.

RMM

When I was TBM I noticed it too. I always figured the temple movie was a 'Reader's Digest' version of the actual story. That is the only thing that made sense to me.

Now..it's all a bunch of crap. I don't even try to make sense of it.

I was taught in religion classes at BYU that Eve was making the truly courageous choice, the choice that they had to make. This was because (of a verse in ALma) God told them to have children in Eden, but they couldn't unless they ate the fruit of good and evil. God set them up in this impossible predicament because He is perfect and making them imperfect (and thus able to have children) would have made him imperfect. So he gave them a contradictory choice so they could bring about their own imperfection. Eve realized this, so she was bravely chose to leave the garden so we could all be born and learn to follow the Saviour.

OK. So... if she made the "truly courageous choice," how come she was cursed to be Adam's follower? I think God should say, "Eve, great job, I knew you could do it. Adam, listen to what this woman says. She will guide you now."

I also find it interesting that God never contradicts the devil's explanation about "doing what has been done in other worlds" by giving them the fruit. He's just out to punish people for breaking his purposely impossible laws. Sounds like a great guy.

Incidentally, in one of the newest temple movies, the devil seems to be the only actor with a human bone in his body... he's so patient, willing to explain, so personable and friendly. I found myself liking him a lot more than God or Adam or Eve! I wondered if they made him that way as a warning to church members not to trust those friendly apostates... LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2015 10:27AM by alyssum.

What I really love about the whole "Eve was so courageous and really understood what had to happen to make mankind exist" idea is that no one who promotes it ever seems to really explain why Eve was then cursed with the pain of childbirth and "curse of womanhood". Usually if someone requires you to make a brave and courageous choice they reward you, not condemn you.

Not arguing with you, alyssum, but am wondering about the idea that you were taught.

If Adam and Eve had to be made imperfect in order for them to have children.... How is it that god is perfect and also has children? And particularly Jesus, when he is born (reborn?) as a man in this world. The whole doctrine seems to say that god makes babies with the same equipment that humans make babies. Maybe a different fluid flowing in the tubes, but the same apparatus. That seems to be a bit of a disconnect in the story. Didn't anyone ever ask about that?

Mormon version or "mainstream" christian/jewish version: the story -- specifically the part you're talking about -- is rather silly.

Eve has no knowledge of good and evil. So she can't know it's "evil" to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Yet she's punished for doing so. Why?
Because "god" told her not to. But since she has no way of knowing it's "evil" or "wrong" to do what "god" told her not to do, because she hasn't eaten the fruit yet, she shouldn't be punished for doing so.

One of the least thought-out myths of the bible. It's rather silly.

Just a little more drivel from flds persective....plygmy was designated to take away womans reproach..as when sarah gave abe hagar to spoon with...its required for wimmin to submit to this and their penis holder as some penitence for snarfing the apple...keep stretching..amazing what crap you can stretch a mind around