I may as well just forget about my children here. He said that if you are in the Celestial Kingdom your children will only be there with you if they keep the covenant path. Well my kids and their children have all left the church never to return. They made that clear to me. So according to this guy I am going to alone in the Celestial Kingdom if I make it there.

I have great kids and great grand children. I can't believe that a loving Heavenly Father would create such a situation. Am I missing something?

You probably don't have to worry about getting into the Celestial Kingdom yourself. You'll probably be with your children in the lower kingdom. If there are any kingdoms which was a figment of JS's imagination when he wrote about them. So, don't worry.
And really, wouldn't you rather be with the folks in the lower kingdoms than the people who think they are righteous enough to make it into the Celestial Kingdom. That place would be insufferable!

JS stole the idea of three kingdoms of heaven from a book first published in 1758 (originally in Latin, then translated into English) by Emanuel Swedenborg, “Heaven and Hell” (You can get a Kindle version on Amazon for 50 cents). The English version happened to be in the library in Palmyra in JS time. Coincidence? I don’t think so.

Ha! I learned about Swedenborg from an investigator on my mission who had this huge collection of Swedenborg books. He says Joseph Smith must have read Swedenborg.

lapsed2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JS stole the idea of three kingdoms of heaven from
> a book first published in 1758 (originally in
> Latin, then translated into English) by Emanuel
> Swedenborg, “Heaven and Hell” (You can get a
> Kindle version on Amazon for 50 cents). The
> English version happened to be in the library in
> Palmyra in JS time. Coincidence? I don’t think
> so.

It didn't just happen to be in the Palmyra library (though I highly doubt he read it, rather he listened to other people's interpretations, everyone would have been talking about it at that time/place). Swedeborg's work, and swedenborgianism in general, had an outsized influence in the religious revival/new religious movements in "the burned over district" in upstate new york. It's interesting that of the major new religions from that time and place, only LDS survived (though one movement eventually became Adventist).

For a niche, mostly unknown, sort of esoteric religion that sounds like it was created by a muppet, it influenced people whose names most people would recognize: helen keller, william blake, robert frost, johnny appleseed.

There's a sweedenborgian church in my area, they had an open house about 6 or so years ago, celebrating their (the church's) 120th anniversary and the religion's 230th anniversary. It's an interesting religion. Unconventional, for sure. They still rely on swedenborg's interpretations and symbology, similar to the way LDS relies on smith's works. But they are universalist and employ some critical thinking, and they're definitely less sinister.

TL;DR Joseph Smith didn't have an original thought in his head. He just relied on the occultists of the day, the masons, the New Testament and Swedenborgianism. All to get in on the new religion action that was all the rage in the area at the time.

Gee, that isn't the selling point for the CK they think it is.

It's guilt tripping parents to keep their kids in line.

OTOH, maybe heaven wouldn't be so bad if all the weird relatives were sequestered in the CK. ;-}

It's all the church has to threaten and control you with. If they threaten you enough, they are just looking for more control and money.

I am not threatened by the brethren. They showed the conference center at the end when the brethren were leaving. It was not filled. That says something too. I believe people who are TBM are finally getting the message. The Church is not what it claims to be.

quite a few years ago when my daughter decided to go back to church and her friend was always able to get her tickets to conference. I went because I didn't want her going alone. There were people on the corners and on the sidewalks begging for our tickets. We had to walk quite a ways from our car to the building, so it was a significant amount of people.

The conference center was FULL. So if they aren't filling the conference center now, they have lost a lot of members in about 10 years' time. And to think, my aunt who works so hard for the church wasn't able to go to GC until my daughter got her a ticket.

This comment was supposed to follow Dallin Hoakes' comment (hope I got his name correct).




(not like I'm going to go back to church), we might be lucky enough to be one of Bednar's wives, not just a neighbor.

That is a really good reason to make sure you don't go to the CK--not like I believe any of it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2023 10:42PM by cl2.

They make up rules as they go along. This statement is totally ridiculous. No Mormon is going to say this out loud to a non-Mormon.

I heard that you can visit lower kingdumbs but those in lower kingdumbs cannot visit higher kingdumbs.

If you don't like Mormon God, pick another God. They are equally real.

Since when are GA authorities on anything? I don't believe a word that comes out of the mouth of anyone who has sold their soul to the church.

I have never heard of the "covenant path". I guess I will be grandfathered in just for being an awesome mom.

Is this the new threat for this weekend? This will hurt grandmas and grandpas but the younger ones don't know what that is either.

It is very cult sounding.

Religions control people through fear and guilt. Religions need ordinances because they need a control point to sell. They love to control the gateway to God and eternal rewards.

.....and another way to attack people with LGBT children. The GA's are gonna get nastier than usual..... It's been a difficult year for the Mormons.

This talk gives TBM parents more ammunition to go after their "errant" children.

If you've had the second anointing your kids are guaranteed exaltation--unless you commit the one true sin.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you've had the second anointing your kids are
> guaranteed exaltation--unless you commit the one
> true sin.

Is that retro-active?

is there a 2nd A for the dead?

so many questions, so few answers

Oh yes, the second anointing is exceptional, not the rule. Most people must wait until the Judgement Day before having their exaltation bestowed upon them by Joseph Smith and his junior partner, God. Going through the rite during this life is special; it's early recognition of extraordinary service and/or a large pocketbook.

But all the scriptures and commentaries (Mormon Doctrine, Doctrines of Salvation) say that the second anointing and all the perquisites it entails will be given hereafter to all who fulfill their temple covenants.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2023 03:54AM by Lot's Wife.

Then I suppose JS Himself, and his acolyte Orson Whitney, were only speaking as men when they sermoned about god's tentacles (which sounds like something from Lovecraft).

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2002/09/hope-for-parents-of-wayward-children?lang=eng

Let's see – if you go to the CK, you won't see your kids or grandkids, but if you're righteous enough, you could be Bednar's neighbor. Face it, the CK is a slum and Jesus is the SlumLord of Hosts.

As a child, the idea of not being able to be with your family and or parents was terrifying. A primary teacher gave a lesson about the CK and I was singled out in the class because my older siblings had stopped attending church. The Goops were the talk of the ward.

Sure, my parents tried threatening and forcing my wayward siblings to attend church. There were lots of fights, yelling and door slamming, pictures being taken off the walls. One time my mom dragged a sibling by the hair into the car, then jumped out of a moving car to escape. My mom was in hot pursuit running after in her dress and high heels.

I hated singing Families can be together forever (which was a new primary song in the 1980s) because I had already been told that my family was forever broken. I ended up hating and resenting my family for many years.

word of wisdom and also the idea that we couldn't be together if some weren't worthy. My dad always drank coffee (as did his parents and others in his family). I would stand and stare at the jar of coffee in the cabinet and worry.

I had other siblings who "sinned" and stopped going to church, etc. My dad really gave them the riot act and I don't understand that as he also drank alcohol and chewed tobacco. He wasn't waht I'd call a TBM, which I've said many times.

My feeling was to live the most devout I could to save my family. And look where it got me.

My reason for being so devout was I also didn't want to lose my family when I got married and had kids. Had to have the RM and the temple marriage. Shall I say again, and look where it got me.

I have to add that my dad told my daughter just after my mom died to never stop going to church and he was hopeful that I had gone to church the Sunday after she died as I was dressed up when I went to the house to see him, but not in a dress. I guess I looked better than other days. Oddly enough, my mother accepted why I left the church and my dad did most of the time until my mom died and then he died 2 months later. When death was knocking on the door for both of them, he was so worried about losing all of us.

One thing I do know is that my daughter would never disappoint my dad. My dad was this big strong individual. My kids say he looked like John Wayne. And he had a heart of gold. So my daughter didn't tell me until a few years ago and he died 14 years ago. I'm like, "Hey, thanks Dad!" I am not angry. I think it is touching. She'll figure it out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2023 11:29AM by cl2.

If you look at the fine print, you wouldn't be with your kids, grandkids, parents or other relatives in the CK anyway. If every worthy husband and wife gets to be gods and goddesses, kings and queens, creating universes and everything in them, and pumping out spirit babies, then every family would be separate and gods and goddesses of their own universes, kept busy with church chores and tasks in eternity as they were in life.

The way I see it, logistically, the only way families can be together forever is in the terrestrial kingdom.

Good point!

Sorry to say, but YES you are missing something. There are no kingdoms and the whole thing is a pile of steaming, stinking dog crap. According to LDS Inc., I "felt the spirit and got promised to obey in the temple, so I'm headed for OUTER DARKNESS!!! Woooo Spooky