From the mormonthink home page.

(Cabbie already posted about this)

Former CES director Grant Palmer will be interviewed this Monday night (Oct. 19th) from 7-9pm at the University of Utah Union Building Ballroom in Salt Lake City. Jason Wallace will be interviewing Grant and a LDS Institute Director from the U of U Institute of Religion (Alma Jensen) on the Implications of Joseph Smith's use of his stone for producing the BOM, the earliest (18 ) sections of the D&C, and treasure seeking between 1822-1827) that he reportedly used this stone for.. It is a timely subject since a picture and article of the stone just came out in the Oct. Ensign Magazine. The debate will be on Youtube.

Alma is going to defend the use of a rock. A cell phone like rock.

And his name is "Alma".

Seriously folks, how hilarious is that!

If I could I'd love to be in a balcony for this just like the two old hecklers on The Muppet Show back in the day.

Heckler one: "Hey! Turn up the brightness on that stone we can't see what's being revealed from up here!"

Heckler two:"Why can't we have a seer stone race? Whoever wins the race is the one who makes the call!"



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2015 05:16PM by AmIDarkNow?.

What exactly are they going to debate about? The CULT has already said he used a rock so what is to debate?

The CULT simply NEVER leaves anything alone do they? Harp on it, keep it in everyone's mind, etc. No wonder everyone hates them.

I hope Grant asks him why if he only read words off a rock in a hat did the church hype that Joe was an "unlearned poor boy"? It doesn't take education or wealth to read words off an iPad.

A bit silly IMO.
It's kind of like having a debate over whether the objects used in the Harry Potter series were real or not.

Did anyone go to this? Please share if you did.

It was interesting. I was amazed the memory and knowledge of Grant and how he talked directly to the audience. Alma took the approach of arguing individual small points like was it a trial or a hearing. Also if JS saw stuff in the stone at first. He took the approach it prepared him to be prophet. Some times the lord uses a persons imperfections. Grant went on to say yes but JS went on to keep doing worse and worse things like adultery, felonies, counterfeiting, treason. Alma was good at trying too look at evrything in the micro but when, Grant took it to the Macro Alma's arguments fell apart. When Grant pointed out that there were five witnesses that said Joseph Smith admitted he saw nothing in the stone all Alma could say was that they could've been lying. When Grant pointed out that three of them were Court affidavits Alma said well people lie in court to. So everybody's a liar and unless they support the church. The one thing that got everybody riled up during the question-and-answer was when Alma said that it was our fault that we didn't know these things about seer stones and marriages and other things. My observation is since Alma is a CES director of the University of Utah he has been given wide latitude to say do and teach things that others would not be able to for example last night he was not wearing a white shirt as most CES instructors are required to do.

"The one thing that got everybody riled up during the question-and-answer was when Alma said that it was our fault that we didn't know these things about seer stones and marriages and other things."

Yeah, that's the same lie Daniel Peterson and other Mopologists have told. The fact is, beginning in the 1830s, church leaders and apologists have downplayed or denied the reports of Smith using seer stones. Here's some documentation:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1569690,1641775#msg-1641775

And here are recent statements from numerous Mormons who say that they heard little or nothing about Joseph Smith's plural marriages from church sources until the essays were published:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1432938,1432938#msg-1432938

randyj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The one thing that got everybody riled up during
> the question-and-answer was when Alma said that it
> was our fault that we didn't know these things
> about seer stones and marriages and other
> things."

Blame the victim.

They have no arguments so they manipulate. They are like bad parents trying to enforce nonsensical rules. Look up manipulation on Wikipedia and you will see all the tactics the LDS authorities use, from the GAs to the primary teachers, spelled out perfectly.

What a sick organization. Imagine living your life thinking it is okay to guilt trip, shame, victim blame, etc. and that others who oppose you are the problem.

Who were the five witnesses who relayed that smokey pants did not see words appear on the stones?

"Wallace will be interviewing Grant and a LDS Institute Director from the U of U Institute of Religion (Alma Jensen)"

Are you sure the guy's name isn't Alma Allred? I used to debate an Alma Allred who held that same position at the U of U back in the late '90s.

It was Alma Allred.

"It was Alma Allred."

He and I debated each other on the Free-Saints e-mail group from about 1997-2000. That was when I first began studying this stuff, and I didn't know much about it. There were some other "heavy hitter" Mopologists there too, including Elden Watson and Robert Crockett. I thought it was kinda funny how I, an uneducated newbie, could easily refute those brilliant, educated Mopologists by using simple facts and logic.

Back then, Alma used to brag that he had been studying anti-Mormon claims for 20 years, and that he hadn't yet come across an issue that he couldn't resolve to his satisfaction. You can see from his responses to Palmer that his method for remaining a TBM is to obfuscate, employ double standards, gaslight other people, and deceive himself. He hasn't changed a bit after nearly two decades.

Battle-Ax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was Alma Allred.


Thanks for the correction. In his haste to tell me the info, Grant made a typo. But is now corrected on MT's home page.

We will link to the youtube video as soon as it's available.

Is this up on YouTube yet?

Was this records folks? I admire Grant very much and would be most interested in watching this video or listening to the audio.

It will be up on youtube in a couple days.