I've been visiting this site for years but up to now have never posted. I can relate to many of the experiences shared here and it has been very helpful in understanding the difficulty for those leaving the church.

Briefly my story. I was raised in the church and I raised all my kids in the church as well. I'm your typical TBM family. I'm still active but havent paid titihing in two years. No one except my wife and the bishop is aware of this so everyone still treats me like a regular member.
The past couple years have been interesting as I find myself feeling more and more as an outsider looking in. Prior to this I felt very much a part of the ward community going along with everything being said, socializing with members, basically feeling at home. Now as I find myself no longer a believer, I sense the tremendous pressure to conform to all the reponsibilties, such as HT, temple attendance, assisting in youth programs and so on. Even though no one knows of my unbelief, I can already sense the negative reaction that will come, having been in this ward all my life (by the way the ward is the same size as it was 30 years ago and the boundaries have changed very little).

So why am I posting now?? Well first, this is the only place I feel safe to be completely honest and where I will be understood. And second, I have come to a point where either I have to start paying tithing again so as not to appear apostate, or take a stand and continue to not pay tithing in which case, even if I continue to attend, it will be apparent that I "have a problem". It has also become evident to me that it is very difficult to continue attending and not be fully participating in all aspects of the church. I feel like I'm in a pressure cooker...thoughts of not attending the temple with my teenage son to help with the vicarious baptisms, not having a calling,...and on...feeling like a second class citizen in my own church, when I have really done nothing wrong. I have known most of these people for over 30 years, so it is difficult knowing the intense negative reaction that awaits me. And I don't blame them for this behaviour, since I would have reacted the same way just a few years ago. They are a product of the system...to judge anyone who is not fully active as a weak, unworthy, unrighteous person.

My wife knows my dilemna, but i have never outright told her I dont believe. I just tell her I'm tired of all the hypocrisy and lack of inspiration at all levels in the church. She agrees with me that leaders in the past were racist, controlling jerks, but somehow she doesnt see a problem with continuing to support the church.

Anyways I can go on, but I think you all get the picture, this is an oft repeated scenario. Ive met with the bishop twice in the past month. Funny enough he agrees that many blunders were and are being made in the church with repect to how finances are being used, things that were said and done, but he says I just need to focus on Christ and don't worry about the rest. He says I should focus on keeping my covenants so that I can reap all the blessings. As expected he just doesn't get it. I realize I dont need his approval for anything, just hoping for some more understanding rather than more pressure.

I wonder if I have the intestinal fortitude to face all this. Looking forward to work tomorrow where people dont really care if you believe this or that or do this or that...as long as you are nice and respectful of others.

Welcome to RfM, newbieguy!!!

What part of the world are you in?

I'm in Canada. Don't want to get much more specific for now.

Isn't it sad that some of us on here could be in the same ward and not even know it...

We need secret signs and tokens!

+1

Don't cha just hate it when Integrity raises it's head and honesty steps up it's game and one is faced with living a more authentic life or accept feeling miserable on a daily basis but especially on Sunday.

Welcome, welcome, welcome! We have all been in your shoes and we can all attest to the satisfaction, even thrill, of becoming our own persons. Of listening to our own counsel and giving up trying to play the pretense game for the sake of friends and family. That is when our lights truly shine and people wonder what ever happened to us. How is it possible that we can be happy and content when we finally leave the lies, the deception, the brain washing behind.

Take your new understandings and conclusions seriously and step out of the shadows of the cult that would keep you chained and enslaved and unfulfilled. Keep coming here, share your experiences, lean on our shoulders as you steady your balance and determination to love yourself enough to get out and away from the cult and it's practices.

You will find you love more deeply, appreciate more easily, laugh with joy as you mingle with the likes of those on this BB.
Ask advice but then give heed to your own inner knowings and understanding. Only you have the answers for you and you will figure your life out as you go. Please keep us posted as your journey unfolds outside of the dastardly kingdom. Love and hugs to you.

Welcome mate!!!

You at the point of having to make some decisons and it is HUGE isn't it? I too know that TSCC is NOT a place where you can enjoy the positives and ignore the negatives. YOu are either in or out, there is NO middle ground and that is VERY difficult.

On occasion, especially around Christmas I feel the need to attend a service of some kind. I have tried all the churches in town and been dissapointed and so VERY occasionally I will go to the little LDS congregation for sacrament meeting. I walk away disgusted,(how much JS can one individual take in a lifetime?) and that does me for another 5 years or so. But I would LIKE to be able to be a 'pick and choose' member and draw strength where I may. I would even be happy to pay my way to do that, make a donation towards the building I am in, the heat I use etc while I am there, but NOT tithing, NEVER!!!! But TSCC does NOT cater for people like me, or increasingly, like you, and that is really difficult. I feel that should be part of any church's agenda, but that is not to be in the cult-like atomosphere of the TSCC.

I am sorry for your struggle and hope you can find a way through it all that will make you more comfortable. It is NOT easy to give up a lifetime of customs, friends and especially family situations.

If you are looking for suggestions (and this is a SUGGESTION only), perhaps the place to start is a LONG discussion with your wife and how you could approach it all, because this will affect her too. Perhaps with her imput and what support she can offer you (as well as how you can make this a better transition for her) in seeing this out in a united manner, it may be easier for you.

Good luck, and I will be thingking of you!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2015 07:16PM by fluhist.

Yikes. Many of us have been in that position.

Ultimately you will have to decide how you want to live your life. You will likely pay dearly one way or the other.

Remember ultimately that you cannot make everyone happy, so concentrate on making yourself happy or you will resent everyone.

I like this quote attributed to Eric Hoffer (author of a great book called True Believer, the Nature of Mass Movements):

"Woe to him inside a nonconformist clique who does not conform with nonconformity."

I suggest a slow fade approach. Focus on working with your wife to spend Sundays doing things together as a family that make everyone more happy than sitting in church as often as you can.

Encourage reading and discussing with your wife. It sounds like she is the one who will suffer if she doesn't wake up.

I suggest you quit giving the Bishop power over you and your wife. Do not meet with him. Get used to saying no and let him know flat out that if you decide you need to discuss anything with him YOU will contact him. Tell him you will let him know if you want a calling. If he pushes back in any way, say "Fine. I don't see any reason to participate." Do not pay tithing.

I'm sorry you need to go through this. You can't undo what you know. The question is whether or not you decide to conform or if you will live an authentic life. Whatever compromise you make, do it on your terms. Your wife will not change if you continue to play along. On the other hand, it could cost your marriage.

There is no right way. Good luck and welcome.

I went to church today - for various reasons I will not state here for risk of outing myself. It was so awkward and I had some very similar thoughts as you. You are NOT alone in your thinking that's for sure. I think I'm a little further out than you are but I understand that feeling of judgement by both sides.

I have a child who will need to be baptized and today, when sitting there thinking "maybe I COULD just try to fake it..." (I can't btw it's not in me) I thought of that and how sure I am that them NOT getting baptized at the approved age will be a really big red flag to those who don't already understand where I'm at. And as you say the tithing... A lot of my "friends" already know I am struggling with the new essays and that alone has caused some major friendship rifts (and a lot of fear of the "potential apostate" lol). Imagining what happens when they find out it's not just a struggle but a complete dissolution of my faith is a strain on my soul.

It's funny how people can say "focus on the gospel, because it's true" without understanding that when that "truth" was given to you by someone who was dishonest about pretty much everything that makes the gospel "the gospel" then that "truth" is false. And they just don't get it. I guess put in another way: If the things that make our specific take on the gospel unique are false, then that gospel you are living is false.

Believing members can't seem to get to that last step of critical thought. "Joseph Smith was evil but the gospel is still true."

Don't expect that to change. My thoughts are with you as you make your decision.

Welcome, NewbieGuy.
So glad you feel you are ready to be a bit more visible.

Welcome, NewbieGuy. It sounds like you have some tough decisions ahead of you. We're here for you whenever you are ready to start transitioning out.

If you do decide to stay undercover, you can mail a money order to the COB, made out to the TCOJCOLDS, with "Full Tithing" written on the memo line. Make it for $10.01. Then when you're called to set your tithing settlement meeting, tell the caller, "I just recently sent in a four figure check to SLC, marked full tithing, so make a note, tell the bishop, and we'll talk again in a year." Chuckle a little...

You're going to hear a lot of talk here about 'integrity', which as a Lamanite, I was never concerned with. I focus on personal happiness, and if lying my ass off to people who are lying to me is what it takes, I'll do it.

But I do believe that eventually even the best of us get tired of lying. But telling the truth doesn't guarantee happiness. You're already aware of the reception you're likely to receive. But one thing will make it work: if you can get your wife to see the truth of the no truth. And hopefully you can get the kids out, too.

Life can be so good out of the church.

Wow a bit overwhelmed by the rapid responses and kind comments. Thank you! You should all join my ward, we could use people like you...oh forgot...most of you already resigned, lol.

Yeah I need to continue talking with my wife..get in deeper, seems to be something I avoid. Btw, we are close, divorce will not happen. She isnt super strict, (we have had coffee and some wine on vacations) but still a believer I think. She is not as analytical as I so maybe this is why she can deal with the contradictions better than I.
She got her recommend renewed today, easy for her...she doesnt work so no tithing. And yes she said she obeys the WOW in her interview, a small white lie. A little more context for you.

When your Bishop says you should focus on Christ, is he referring to that same Christ who slaughtered tens of thousands of his brothers and sisters?

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1700404

If so, I suggest you follow your own conscience instead.

Welcome (as a participant) to RfM.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2015 08:53PM by cytokine.

If you decide to openly leave, that might be a great help to other people who are doubting or actually wanting to leave themselves. In the meantime, they are looking around at church and thinking, gosh, these other people believe in the church, who am I not to? Especially when other pretend or real believers are "so smart.." or "such a nice person". "If that really smart person believes they must know better than I do."

It would help your kids to have your example of rational thinking and independence. Let some light and air into their mormon bubble. It might even be a great relief to them. As far as missing their ceremonies, well I'm not a parent but it seems to me that sharing your real views with them would be a greater gift to them than attending the rites of the so called church.

It's a tough call though and only you know what works for you.

Any chance of your doing a few sessions with a (secular) therapist to consider or to ease this transition? It would cost you a heck of a lot less than renewed tithing.

Thanks for posting. If there is one thing I can say. Some of us are right where you are. I can personally relate to what you said about coming out of the mormon closet.

Hi & welcome. I think it's good you already have people around you (at work) who wouldn't give you grief over this. I think things will be easier for you if you have/make friends outside of the church, because then your leaving will not affect every part of your life. Good luck!

You never know who in your ward feels the same as you but feel they need to keep playing the game for family and other reasons.

My advice is go slow in extracting yourself. There will be conservative sequences with every action. But know you will be happy once you are completely out and can be authentic.

There will be consequences not conservative sequences.

Just never stop saying "Okay hosers, eh?" and the ward members won't feel threatened.

I don't have much to say since I had a different situation (non-member husband), but just be careful not to blindside your wife or put her on the spot at church since that's been your community, your social circle, for so long. Keep her in the loop as much as you can.

I think I'm with dagny - the slow fade. Maybe plan some weekend outings or trips with your wife so she doesn't begin to fear that you want to leave the church AND HER with it.

Does she have friends, hobbies or activities OUTSIDE of the church, or is she totally church centered? If she's totally church centered - or if you have been too, I'd try to get involved with some outside things so there's not a huge void all of a sudden. Besides, there's a big world out there.

Too bad you can't move - that's what I did and it was amazingly easy after that.

I'm sorry for your dilemma. A lot of people here have gone through similar, and there seem to be some hard choices ahead.
I have to say, however, that it is a WONDERFUL feeling to be free of the LDS religion, and being able to explore new ideas and not feel guilty about it.

Pay attention to Seekyr above.

If you don't share your journey away from church with your wife every step of the way, she is in grave danger of thinking you withheld your experiences and emotions from her (sharing them on the internet instead), and she may feel you have grown apart.

When you make your decision to leave without your spouse, it gets really hard for the spouse not to feel defensive about church. We see so many broken marriages here, and it is really sad.

Haha moving...thats sort of a running joke I have with my wife...lets just move!
My wife does have a good network of friends outside the church thankfully. But that doesn't elimnate the all encompasing influence the church has on almost every aspect of our lives. I think my first step will be to expose her to some of the things I found regarding the church, here a little and there a little and see what she thinks. And maybe discuss with her what some of the reasons one of our adult children left the church. He has been inactive for a few years and just a few months ago announced to us that he formally resigned. Interesting my wife said...well you are an adult you can decide for yourself. No shedding of tears or hysteria...all good signs.

Her reaction to your kid's resignation is HUGE! I don't see your problem being how, but just when.

Do your kids at home have a mix of friends, or just mormon friends? I can see some of your kids' friends becoming envious when your kids have Sunday free from church.

Your wife's reaction to your son's resignation is a healthy sign that, as she becomes aware of your feelings and thoughts on Mormonism, it may not be as nearly as a traumatic experience as it can be for some spouses.

It may present you will an opening, too, when you can bring up your own concerns.

IE

Your son's resignation or attitude towards the church becomes a topic of conversation.

You: "I have to admit, I have concerns and questions as well. " or some other lead in....

Well so far we have:

Love,
Acceptance,
Compassion,
Understanding,
Support,
Non-judgmental
Joy,

Isn't this what the LDS church claims to be?

I guess we have to leave it to find what we where all looking for.

Welcome! I was never in your shoes (no TBM spouse/kids/BIC) but I do remember the fear of telling my mother. I eased her into it by telling her bit by bit the things I'd learned. When I finally told her I was leaving she was totally behind me. This probably doesn't help you much but still, I know the disappointment of having the ward label you a waster, loser, sinner, etc. I didn't like it. I was first angry but now I pity the poor deceived members who just go on and on in the lie thinking they are normal when in reality they are in Steppford. Good luck with your eventual journey out. I hope it goes well when you finally break it to your wife. Sincerely, good luck.

WELCOME! My advice is always to QUIT when it comes to the CULT. Ask anyone on this board. Don't let them count you as a member of the evil CULT.
But of course, you have to be ready to do that. I've been out a long time.

Be genuine and truly sincere to the new atmosphere and self you stumbled on. It's hard and confusing, but you know yourself better than us or your family and friends.
Instinct is a human skill managed best by the perceived. Amen, for some..hope you really want to be part of this fun, diverse group of friends. It's a soft place to fall..

Welcome!

Be the guy with integrity. Announce to your wife and anyone who asks that your integrity will not allow you to support a church that builds overpriced malls and housing developments... Integrity. They will begin to wonder what they are doing.

Good luck on your new, authentic path.

Ex-Sis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good luck on your new, authentic path.

And from me, too...