I am posting here, because i really value and respect the opinion of so many of you here at RFM. Thank you all for the levity and laughs as I have transitioned myself out of Mormonism.

I've got a great job right now at a young age (23) and my relatives think it would be foolish for me to abandon it and pursure something like the military. However, this job isn't something I see myself making a career out of... ( I work in IT, sit at a desk all day with a long commute, in a job i am not interested or emotionally invested in.) I have recently been exploring career options, or a new path.

Income at this point in my life is a non-issue to me. I have no wife or kids and I want to seek challenging new experiences and see the world. The only thing that bothers me is i wont be able to see my family often, but i havent been able to do that much lately anyway (i live in PA now and they are in Alabama.)

in doing my resarch (which i believe has been extensive) i have been really drawn to the idea of becoming a Navy Nuke. (Basically i would work with the nuclear reactors on Naval carriers and Submarines.) It is challenging and demanding, both physically and intellectually. The attrition rate in the training program is as high as the NAVY Seals, and it is a 6 year committment, with the first two years being in training, followed by a 4 year committment actively doing the job. While im highly intelligent, i have never been studious or a that hard of a worker. I believe that if i commit to this goal into I can excel, especially if im around like minded peers.

This is obviously a huge decision... and its intimidating for me. I spent my childhood being indoctrinated and dreaming to go on a mission and marry in the temple (i did neither), and it has been a struggle for me to create my own direction. I'd love to follow my gut on this one, but ive learned that making decisions based on emotion or your gut may not always be smart. (as any exmo knows)

The truth is... i could see myself as a 30 year old man being happy i did this.

Do any of you here at RFM have any input to offer? Prior military experience, any personal or familial stories to share, or advice for a young man trying to find his way? Thank you so much in advance for reading the post, empathizing with my young adulthood angst, and sharing your thoughts.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2015 01:06PM by peacefulwarrior.

I work with and mentor young US Navy people. If you're as smart as you say, I challenge you to become an Arabic linguist and see where it takes you. You could well eventually end up as a well-paid contractor or civil servant.

Former Poster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I work with and mentor young US Navy people. If
> you're as smart as you say, I challenge you to
> become an Arabic linguist and see where it takes
> you. You could well eventually end up as a
> well-paid contractor or civil servant.


Thank you for the suggestion. I haven't considered this route yet, but i will definitely do my research about it let you know which route i end up taking.

My take is that you are right now likely at the ideal time in your adulthood to make a major life change...

...in your [almost] mid-twenties (which means you've had a chance to get used to being a real life adult, and you've also likely done some mental refining, and some winnowing out, of the "false positives" you once thought were "you" when you were an adolescent and a beginning adult)...

...without marital, or intimate family, ties---or heavy financial responsibilities which would necessarily have a major effect on the range of your choices....

...and WITH a growing sense of the actually "possible" for YOU (the unique human being that you are).

I say: Go with your gut, and your soul, and your passion(s).

This is, for you, the ideal time to make these kinds of life choices and decisions.

If, for whatever reason, these plans should not work out as you now envision they probably will, you will STILL gain a stronger and wiser sense of the possibilities which THEN might lie ahead of you (which would include probably many options that you are now unaware of as possible life options for YOU).

I see no drawbacks...and a lifetime of unfolding advantages as your life proceeds.

From my standpoint, it looks like win-win-win for you all the way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2015 12:14PM by tevai.

Join the Coast Guard. We are the best branch, the Navy is for the sissies lol.

I was a Navy Nuke for 11 years (1980-1991), served aboard the USS Florida, SSBN 728. I specialized as an enlisted electrician.
I now work at Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station in Arizona.

The nuke pipeline is very demanding, even without a family.
But if you like the idea of serving your country and learning a technical occupation at the same time, the Navy is a good choice.

Most US nuke stations look for Navy experience for their operators and if you can couple that with a college degree, you have some pretty good prospects for employment.

I will follow this topic and will be glad to share my experience and thoughts about the Navy.

I will offer this: I would do it all again.

...and to Exmo Aspie, dead serious, I appreciate your service to our country.

Thank you. I haven't really done that much, I'm just an Auxiliarist, Aspergers keeps you out of Active Duty and Reserves. You've done way more, so I must thank you.

Thank you so much for your reply. I hope you dont mind me asking you some questions about the Nuke life. Were you ever in a sub? When you were at port, did you get to spend much time on land? I know that you have to report to the ship earlier, and stay later once ashore. Did you ever feel like you were missing out on being a tourist of another country because of this?

I served aboard the USS Florida, SSBN728. It is, or was, an Ohio class ballistic missile sub. For the most part, subs come in two flavors; missile boats and everything else (fast attacks, guided missile, special ops, etc.)

The Florida had two crews, blue and gold. Each crew would alternate taking the sub out on patrol. If you were the off crew, you did training and leave. Pretty good off time. I am not sure if this is still the case, I have heard that the Navy went to two subs and three crews. Not sure about that.

If you want to see other ports besides your home port, a missile boat is not for you. Patrols consist of running a set course at a set depth, staying invisible to other subs and staying ready to launch missiles. At the end of patrol you come back to your home port, help ready the sub for its next patrol and hand it over to your counterpart on the other crew.

The nukes, among others needed to be the first on and the last off because of the engine room and reactor. But it was not a huge amount of time.

Anyway, if you want to go to ports, go surface or something besides a missile boat. Maybe there is a fast attacker that can give you an idea of their routine.

One other thought. For me, personally, boot camp was the worst part of being in the military. Now any Marine reading this will laugh at Navy boot camp. When I was a boot in San Diego, the Navy shared a fence with the Marine boot camp. We use to joke that guys who wanted out of Navy BC would hop the fence and the Marines would just smack them around and throw them back over the fence.
But all boot camps are not easy. They are designed to do some weeding out. They are also designed to strip you of "some" of your individuality and non-conformity. Also, the military uses the Uniform Code of Military Justice. It acts in place of your civil rights.
Just understand that you will need to wade through the alligators before you get to the other side.

The navy save my son's life. He was not a good student and because his birth mom didn't care about his education he was behind a year. His junior year, we both knew he wouldn't make it another year in traditional school so we worked together to get his GED. He then went on to take a job in a cabinet shop. One day, he watched his friend remove a few fingers and he knew it wasn't going to work long term.

His father had been a medic in the Navy and he decided to join up. He worked his way up and is now an officer on an air craft carrier and is living in Japan. He's loving life and the Navy has helped him soar! He even has a master's degree. I highly recommend you join if you're so inclined. My only recommendation is that you choose a rate that has a civilian equivalent so that you can get a job if you choose to leave the Navy at some point.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2015 12:23PM by Devoted Exmo.

I joined the AF when I was 23. I had no money but was working what I knew was a dead end. I had no delusions about that fact that if I kept on the same path I'd be worn out and uneducated by the time I was 30.

Best decision I ever made. To this day I have dreams about re-enlisting. Yeah its weird. Great memories can be made and very close friendships. It’s the comraderie that I miss the most.

You won't see much of the world 800 ft below the surface while tending to that reactor but all the other benefits are worth it IMO.

p.s. Make bank if you go this route. Save your money and use the education benefits when you get out and even while still in are something to take advantage of big time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2015 12:24PM by AmIDarkNow?.

My husband retired from the Army last year. In many ways, the military was a Godsend for him. It served as a surrogate dad for him after he was mostly raised by his mom. It helped him go from lower middle class to solid middle class. It even helped him escape the horrible marriage he had with his TBM ex-wife from hell.

He had an interesting career and went to a lot of cool places. Just as his terminal leave was ending last year, he got a job in Germany and that's where we are living now. Next month, he will earn his second master's degree, completely paid for by the military.

That being said, the military is not for everyone. The Navy can especially be tough, especially if you do find a wife or have kids. However, of all the branches, I'd say they have some of the best places to live.

If you can hack it and understand that sometimes the lifestyle can suck (and sometimes you won't get what you're promised), I'd say go for it. If not, then walk in a different direction. A lot of people will try to tell you the armed forces are only about killing and war. That is not true. A lot of what my husband is doing now and did in the Army was all about cooperation with other countries and peacemaking. Just some food for thought.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2015 12:26PM by knotheadusc.

Here's my take:

Pros:
-- great training and education
-- challenging work
-- decent (not great) pay, *outstanding* benefits and pension
-- chance to "travel and see the world"

Cons:
-- extremely structured life (somewhat like mormonism but without the "god" part), other people make decisions and you must obey them
-- compared to the same jobs in private sector, low pay
-- as you mentioned, being with family can be very hard


In my experience, it's the first "con" that gets a lot of people. If you fit into that kind of environment, you can get trained and educated well for free, learn valuable skills, get paid fairly decently at the same time, and stay in for 20 years, retire with an excellent pension, and still work in the field you were trained for. If you can't fit into that kind of environment, you'll be miserable the entire time and won't do well.

I wish you the best in whatever you decide.

Actually, I'd say there is a lot of religion in the military. Quite a number of folks who serve are strong believers... and there are lots of Mormons and fundies. However, that is not supposed to get in the way of the work and in my husband's experience, mostly didn't. It is noticeable, though.

My husband had a brief stint out of the service while he was married to his ex. That was when he became LDS. When he came back in, he got some much needed support from an LDS boss he had. And then, when he resigned, we lived on post and Mormons weren't allowed to proselytize (though we did get visited by one who also lived on post in a very weird encounter).

Once you've been in long enough, the lifestyle isn't that structured and it becomes like any other desk job, only with a uniform and regular PT tests.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Cons:
> -- extremely structured life (somewhat like
> mormonism but without the "god" part), other
> people make decisions and you must obey them

> In my experience, it's the first "con" that gets a
> lot of people.


That is excellent insight... And its something I've thought of alot. This may sound odd, but i feel like i would like the structure it provides. Maybe because i was raised in such a regimented structure, i feel like at this stage in my life it would serve me well.

peacefulwarrior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is excellent insight... And its something
> I've thought of alot. This may sound odd, but i
> feel like i would like the structure it provides.
> Maybe because i was raised in such a regimented
> structure, i feel like at this stage in my life it
> would serve me well.

If you've thought about it from all sides, and think it can be what you want/need, then you're over the biggest hurdle. I'm glad you're looking at this so thoroughly before jumping in!

One more thing: have you considered that you may have to kill people? Are you OK with that?

I enlisted in USN at age 20. I was about to be drafted into the army, this was during the Viet Nam war. I figured I could avoid being sent to Viet Nam if I joined the navy. Where did they send me ??? Viet Nam of course :) :)

BUT, I became a flight crew member on a P3 Orion. All my friends at home never left home. I got to see the Philippines, Viet Nam, Thailand, Hong Kong, Japan, Guam, and Alaska. Turn out to be a great experience/adventure. And the "GI Bill" put me through 4 years of college after my service. I had a career as an electrical engineer.

Even though I was not excited about going into the military it turned out to be a life changing experience for me.

Good luck in what ever you decide :) :) :)

I did not join the military, but "a branch of the uniformed services"--the Air Force--when I was almost 25 and married. It worked out fine, and I raised a family of 5 kids in it. I spent 21 years "serving" (again--Air Force) in the intelligence field, and ended up with a great job afterward. Lots of travel to both good and bad places. The military (or Air Force) can really get you out of a rut and on to better things. Then again, it can also backfire like any other job venture.

Like Exmo Aspie says above, the Coast Guard is also a very good option, a branch of the military with a real, on-going mission.

Good luck with this.


PS: I've worked with a lot of Marines, too. Life in the Marines sucks big time.

The Navy was good for me. Completed a 4 year enlistment, gave me discipline, technical training, and life experiences that I look back upon now with pride. As a young man I was headed for trouble, and in restrospect the Navy saved me from that.

Yes it is structured, too structured for me, and that's why I did not re-enlist. But I would do it again.

After my Navy life, engineering degree, family committments, good paying job in the defense industry, etc. Plus they financed most of my undergraduate degree under the G.I. bill. (A program they should never have changed, but I think their is some form of tuition reimbursement in Today's world.) I can't say for sure, but I think in my particular case without the Navy none of that would have happened.

Good luck in your decision. Just remember, a big committment for sure. And know for sure that it's much better than "wasting" 2 years on a Mormon Mission in some shit hole as an Amway Salesmen for an obviously flawed product.

Well this is how I see it. You've been thinking about this decision for quite some time now. You're using all your resources to answer the question, "is this right for me?", before you make a huge decision..
But honestly, from personal experience, you have to trust yourself. You're an amazingly intelligent guy, you don't give yourself enough credit! You don't trust yourself to make a big decision, because maybe you fear you'll screw it up, or choose wrong. But what do you always say about fear? Fear stopped controlling you a long time ago.. You need to trust your own being first, to know that whatever you decide, will always be a learning experience, a chance for you to grow in so many other ways!

No one on this forum will give you the answer you seek. You already KNOW the answer, and it's time you accept it, embrace it, get excited about it!

You have a bright mind, and a beautiful soul. Follow your heart on this one, cause it's not leading you wrong.

'nuff said!!!

I've worked with past Navy Nukes. They were good people, smart and all. It's a difficult life and you have a HIGH risk of taking up smoking. There's a lot of down time when you don't have much else to do and there's lot of other smokers. All the Nukes I've worked wtih were now smokers who wanted to quit.

The primary thing about the Nukes is that they are considered "trainable". It's not that you have a skill that translates to the civilian world. You just know how to learn or be programmed. With what you've described of yourself, I think this is part of the program you will find difficult and could wash you out.

While you enter the military with one path agreed upon, the fine print basically allows the military to retrain you as needed for whatever they need at the time. It's happened to many of my military friends and coworkers. It's how my artillery buddies ended up running prison camps in Iraq as part of the MPs for example.

I’ve worked civil service for the Navy over 30 years. They whole “Cyber Warfare” is a big deal right now, and the Navy can’t hire enough “IT Professionals” fast enough. If you wanted to stay in IT, the Navy will snap you up. They are working mostly defense warfare, but are starting to get into Offensive Cyber warfare, which is really cool stuff.

I'm a retired Navy Commander. Joining the Navy after I graduated from college was one of the best decisions I ever made. Good luck!

Because of your S/N, I have to ask if that was Her Majesty's Royal Navy?


ETA: But in either case, Good Show, man!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2015 03:40PM by elderolddog.

I was in the Air Force for over 20 Years. Interesting career, best facilities among services, and great retirement.

You are not married now but probably will eventually. I was assigned in areas with Navy bases and Navy families when I was in church so we became personally involved. Sorry to say Navy families, where husband was at sea frequently, were basket cases. Yours could be the exception.

I suggest you list your talents, interests, etc. then based on that go with your intuition/gut for a career. I would think land based service if you are still interested in the Military unless you never plan on marriage and family.

We are a pro-military family, lots of service back to the Civil War. Son just retired a few years ago under age 50. Husband served -- but was drafted.
It's a good career if you are compatible with the structure.
It's done best if you have a supportive family.
You've done your research, you've read a lot of supportive, honest comments. Now it's your choice.

Thanks again to all of you :)

I appreciate all of the insight you've given me. I feel quite confident this will be the route I will take. Just wanted to hear all of your thoughts on it! You guys have definitely given me some more food for thought. I'll be sure to keep everyone posted on the next step in the journey.

Since you've already basically decided that you want to do it, I'll join with the group and say go for it. It might be the best thing you've ever done, 6 years of misery, or really nothing special. Your experience is uniquely yours.

"The attrition rate in the training program is as high as the NAVY Seals, and it is a 6 year committment, with the first two years being in training, followed by a 4 year committment actively doing the job."

If the attrition rate is high what are you going to do if you fail?

What other jobs in the Navy do you think you could train for?

This is a 6 year enlistment, if you wash out of the program you can either accept where they send you or be proactive and request other programs. Having a first, second, or third options is helpful for rapidly bouncing back from failure. You don't want to be a lost sheep wandering around confused because things didn't go as you thought they would.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2015 05:06PM by the1v.

If you haven't already, talk to a Navy recruiter. Talk about your interest in subs but ask him or her what other good options might be available to you. As others have suggested you might like surface warfare, language training, intelligence, or IT/Cyber warfare. I would keep your options open. You might want to check out the other branches as well.

Think about what is important to you -- if you want to see the world, subs are probably not the best way to do it. I talked with a retired submariner officer once and he said that he usually went out on lengthy missions and then returned directly to home port. My brother on the other hand served as an Army officer in the Corps of Engineers. He had a lot of computer expertise as well in an age when many didn't. He served a really pleasurable stint in Honolulu and did a lot of travel to Asia in the course of his assigned duties.

I didn't ask anyones opinion prior to enlisting in the Navy. Not even my parents. They were hurt and miffed, but in the end it was my decision to make and I have no regrets.

I signed up for Navy Nuke, but washed out during boot camp because of math scores. My fall back was nuclear weapons, not so picky about high school math. It turned out to be great. No underway watches, 4 section liberty, short work hours underway.

40 years later, no more tactical nukes aboard ship and no real crossover civilian jobs. But again, no regrets. Had a LOT of fun overseas.

It was one of the smarter decisions I've made for myself.

PS: Switching to nuclear weapons took me off subs and onto an aircraft carrier.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2015 05:59PM by rutabaga.

myself, I'd consider the Air Force or the Coast Guard as first choices;


I believe there's more freedom, pretty much same pay & benes (GREAT retirement after 20 yrs), etc. You'll have much more travel with the AF, of course, but anyone who likes IT and is a high-functioning person can pretty much shine & avoid a lot of authoritative mis-treatment/garbage.