After the release of the new handbook I told my husband I couldn't be associated with the church any longer. This was his response:

1. If that's how you feel then you should follow your conscience
2. However, if you leave your children and I are going to feel betrayed
3. You raised them in the church and taught them about eternal families and now you're breaking apart our eternal family
4. I can't guarantee that I won't want to be married to someone who believes the same way I do.
5. I want someone who will go to church with me and sit beside me and attend activities with me.

I honestly don't even know what to do with this. I haven't been active for at least a decade, drink coffee every morning and have a corona every Friday after I'm done with work. He knows I don't believe in the church so what the hell?

He lives in a delusional world where there is always a chance you'll be returning to the fold. Resigning kills that delusion dead.

I am not a Mormon, so can only be astounded that his emotional investment in the church is so great that he would jeopardize his marriage for it. But this is so sad and hurtful.

How can all that cultish hoo hah be worth losing your wife. And what if your children reject the church also, in time. The scriptural contradictions and deeply wrong policies don't seem to be diminishing, and kids are smart.

I am so sorry you are dealing with this.

We have seen that far too often here, a Mormon will double down when his or her spouse declares a lack of belief. Every situation is different and I am afraid of giving wrong advise. Folks can tell of their experiences and you can choose what may apply to you.

One option is to not resign to keep the family together. Resigning is a mere formality in your case. If you can avoid attending church most of the time, that may work. Most of us would find attending all meetings weekly intolerable and that would need to be negotiated. There has to be some compromise. Perhaps a church free Sunday for the whole family once per month with enjoyable activities? This is supposed to be a family church after all.

Hang in there.

Nothing is so completely black and white you can't compromise. I think summer has a good point: you can keep your own counsel and withdraw from activities as always, and if you can live with not resigning, perhaps life can just go on.

But I know when you are a principled person trying to foster intellectual and spiritual honesty, as so many on this site are, it is a festering thorn in the side to still support the church on paper. Maybe you can live with not drawing that particular line in the sand in order to keep your earthly family together.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2015 10:21AM by amiable.

Start working out. Get a new hairstyle & update your wardrobe. It'll take him a few weeks to clue in & when he asks you "what's going on?" Tell him, that if your leaving the church may make him leave you, you think you'd better be looking great for the next guy. That'll shut him up.

Heading out to the gym right now.

Thanks to everyone though for your support you have no idea how much it means to me.

No body ever remembers what happened in the garden.
Adam chose to stay with Eve.
It breaks my heart every time I hear it's me or the church.

^^^^^ love this!

I suppose you could make up your own fairy tale and then get mad at him for not following it.

"You are stopping me from sailing in the rose peddle sea in heaven with you if you attend the Mormon church!"

Seriously, I'm sorry you have to deal with that mentality with a spouse. My only advice is to be the best person you can.

I think what your husband is *really* trying to say with all of that bluster is, "It's important to me and for the sake of our children that you not resign." Given that you already have most of what you want anyway (Sundays free, WoW violations) I would consider that a reasonable compromise.

There are no perfect solutions when Mormonism is trying to rip families apart.

It sounds like that you and your husband could use some therapy from a reputable counselor.

There are podcasts, blogs that may help in the mean time and may open a dialogue between you and your husband.
http://infantsonthrones.com/unequally-yoked/

http://unequally-yoked.net/

Your trying to steer in waters that haven't been navigated clearly. The church and even exmormon communities tend to try to tear marriages and relationships apart when the couples have different philosophies.

You have a de facto resignation anyway by your actions in the past 10 years.

DH and I don't believe, but we are still members of record, although we have a de facto resignation since we don't attend and will never believe.

Consider your situation before making a quick decision. Sometimes it takes time, rather than quick action, to lead your family out.

He has just told you to go ahead but that he will take your children and divorce you because of it, and plans to remarry a faithful LDS woman to replace you as the mother of your children, once he's able to get rid of you.

What's to consider or work through? Why stay in such a sham marriage as that?

He has just showed you exactly who and what he is: a man who loves his church more than he loves you, or your children, and that he isn't above holding your kids hostage to get you to do whatever he wants.

Call a divorce lawyer NOW, to ask for a consultation to disvuss some options. Find out how to protect yourself and your children from any hostile actions that might result from his veiled and not so subtle threats; act now to protect your financial assets, too.

If you can't afford one, try Legal Aid or ask a friendly, non-Mormon parent or relative to help you foot the bill. Ask at work (his or your work; if you are married and on his benefits plan), if you have crisis funds available to you as an employee to pay for one, or check to see if your employer offers a prepaid legal plan you can cheaply buy. You can also for about $15-30 per month, sign up for a prepaid legal plan on your own.

Consulting a lawyer does not equal moving forward with a divorce or separation. It doesn't mean you want a divorce. It doesn't mean you've thrwen in the towel or given up on your marriage. Consulting a lawyer means being informed and being prepared. If he makes the first move, you can now meet that action head on, eyes wide open, better prepared than you could do so right now.

+++
This is good advice. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. Your husband, passively aggressively just sent you a message that he values the church over you, your love, your motherhood and everything else. Protect yourself.
People like him value WHAT you are over WHO you are. I knew women that were dead set on marrying a doctor. Didn't matter if the guy was a total Douche- he was a Doctor!!!
They bypassed really good guys that were accountants, engineers, salesmen, etc. to marry an asshole doctor & get treated like shit. Most of them are divorced. You marry someone because of the person that they are, not the church that they attend. Like Bookratt suggested, cover your ass. Your husband has just shown you that you shouldn't trust him. I'm sorry for you. It sucks. But, it would suck worse if you didn't take steps to care for yourself.

This is exactly the crux of the problem. When someone tells you that they feel you should follow your conscience but that the consequences will be that they won't be able to be with you it breaks a trust.

I didn't tell him that if he didn't leave the church we were done. But I honestly feel like I have more reason.

I don't want to leave, I do think we need to find a way to communicate though without getting so defensive, i.e. if you do what you want then the consequences will be dire. That's ridiculous.

I won't leave but if anybody asks what I believe, I refuse to lie.

Good for you. You have integrity.Your husband should appreciate that virtue instead of threatening to leave over it.
You can prove that JS was a conman, an adulterer and practiced polyandry. You can prove the BY was a racist & the church actually threw him under the bus. You can prove that the church's policy on gay kids goes against what the bible says. He can only "feel" that the church is true, in the face of all the evidence that it's not. Keep your eyes & ears open. Follow Bookratt's good advice & stay alert.
I'm sorry you're in this spot, but you'll never go wrong being true to yourself.

"My little sins are okay. Your honesty with yourself is cause for destroying a family."

-Typical jerk Mormon

I don't know what to make of people who think and behave like your husband. Love is meant to be unconditional. To place religious doctrine above the love you thought you and he shared tells me his love for you was never real, At least not according to my definition of the term. I am saddened this keeps happening. I feel for you. Please take care of yourself and I hope your husband comes to realize the truth as the cult unravels...and it will.

Ron Burr

He is using this as an excuse for a divorce. He has been waiting for you to give him a reason to get a divorce even though I don't think this is a good reason. He does though.
Tell him not to let the door hit him in the ass on the way out. And make sure he knows you will be getting at least half custody. Too bad the kids have to be in the cult.

I see his response as conditioned -- his church has taught him that one good way to "get people back into the fold" is to threaten them with the horrible things that will happen if they don't come back. For some silly reason, they think it "works" to bring people back. It doesn't, at least not very often.

The threats rely on the assumption that you actually still believe, but just want to "sin" and excuse it. And that your belief will overcome that desire to sin, you'll recognize the danger, and won't go through with staying away. Of course, since most of us who leave DON'T still believe, we find the threats meaningless, sad, family-breaking, and disgusting. The threats don't work the way they intend them to.

Whether or not he'll carry out his threats...I don't know. Many do, some don't. I think all you can do is resolutely stand your ground, show him you're not going to give in to threats, and then he'll have to decide what to do. The truth is, he's at least as frightened about losing you as he's trying to make you be about losing him. And this is how he thinks he can make that not happen. Let him know he's wrong, that threats aren't going to sway you. And then let him know that you're not giving up on the FAMILY because of your honesty about your beliefs. Then it's up to him.

Best.

Why is it ok with you to teach our children to sing praises to a man who your own church admits had sex with 14 yo girls when he was 36, and to hate gaybies?

Teaching them to sing the praises of Joseph's Myth and Bring'em Young, is like Fundamentalist Mormons continuing to sing Warren Jeffs' praises while he rots in jail for the rest of his life on child rape charges.

And the nuke of all questions.

koriwhore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> church admits had sex with 14 yo girls


Do you have a source for this? I know most of us assume he had sex with his many wives, but I'd be really surprised to see the church admit to this.

Are you serious? Where have you been? This has been all over the news. Even on the church's website LDSorg. Although the worded her as "A few months shy of her 15th birthday".
You posted here, you have the internet. Spend some time with Google.

You could be a little less snarky and just answer the question.

Indeed.
At any rate, the church's "essay" on the topic admits that he "married" a girl (Helen Mar Kimball) who was 14; it doesn't admit he had sex with her.

Yeah, her later writings and the normal course of Smith's "marriages" indicate he did; still, the LDS essay doesn't admit it.

You are right. However, this has been a hot topic for over a year. RfM, the Trib, local & national news covered this extensively. In the time it took jayc to post, he/she could've typed "lds church on joseph smith sex with 14 year old girls"
and found a trove of info.

StillAnon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are right. However, this has been a hot topic
> for over a year. RfM, the Trib, local & national
> news covered this extensively. In the time it took
> jayc to post, he/she could've typed "lds church on
> joseph smith sex with 14 year old girls"
> and found a trove of info.


None of which is evidence that the LDS church admits to Joseph having sex with a 14 year old. If this evidence exists please cite your source.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2015 03:17PM by jayc.

StillAnon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you serious? Where have you been? This has
> been all over the news. Even on the church's
> website LDSorg. Although the worded her as "A few
> months shy of her 15th birthday".
> You posted here, you have the internet. Spend some
> time with Google.


Arrogance and ignorance.. a terrible combination.

The LDS church's stance appears to be that his marriage to Helen Mar Kimball was one without sexual relations:

"Helen Mar Kimball spoke of her sealing to Joseph as being “for eternity alone,” suggesting that the relationship did not involve sexual relations. After Joseph’s death, Helen remarried and became an articulate defender of him and of plural marriage."
Source: https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng

This supports my current understanding of the LDS churches stance on his 14 year old bride. To hear them admit that he had sex with her would be very surprising to me.

Any time you are the victim of blackmail or extortion, you should call their bluff and take the consequences. It is the only answer. Otherwise you become the other person's slave.

No matter what the cost, it is far better not to live under the cloud of blackmail or extortion.

Religions are all about figuring out a way to put you between a rock and a hard spot. They have various strategies. Mormons use the "eternal family" trick. "If you don't buy into our story, you will not be with your family in the hereafter." (And pay us money.) All religions find something to try to lasso you into a mind-trap. With standard Christians, it's "You were born sinful. You need Jesus (and pay us money) to keep out of hell." It's all bullshit, folks. And it's bad for you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2015 02:52PM by rationalist01.

Qoute:

Religions are all about figuring out a way to put you between a rock and a hard spot. They have various strategies. Mormons use the "eternal family" trick. "If you don't buy into our story, you will not be with your family in the hereafter." (And pay us money.) All religions find something to try to lasso you into a mind-trap. With standard Christians, it's "You were born sinful. You need Jesus (and pay us money) to keep out of hell." It's all bullshit, folks. And it's bad for you.



Each of you bow your heads and say YES.

JS FUCKED at least two 14 year old girls; Fanny Algar was one and the other one had the last name of Mar, I think Helen Mar. I'm fairly sure they are the 2 14 years olds but I might be remembering wrong. There were two (at least) 14 year olds.

And unfortunately - "Fundamentalist Mormons continuing to sing Warren Jeffs' praises while he rots in jail for the rest of his life on child rape charges." The FLDS are doing exactly this! They are kissing Jeff's ass.

"JS FUCKED at least two 14 year old girls; Fanny Algar was one and the other one had the last name of Mar, I think Helen Mar. I'm fairly sure they are the 2 14 years olds but I might be remembering wrong. There were two (at least) 14 year olds."

You are remembering wrong. All this has been discussed dozens if not hundreds of times on the board. Any search would have brought it up.

Fanny Alger was 16. The 14-year-olds were Helen Mar KIMBALL (daughter of Heber C.) and Nancy Winchester. It's always good to learn the facts before posting. You can start at

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

which provides a good overview.

"You broke up our celestial family!"

"Yeah, and I woke up one morning and realized I was married to a cult member who refused to use his brain, so I know all about shock, sweetheart."

Reading through this thread is awesome. I really love you guys!